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kimek

1250 Tesla Mayhem list

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But this only works as good as it does because of the usual current meta game.

Most players build their list around a small number of large and massives. Sometimes even only taking the minimum of mediums and smalls. Such lists are very suceptible to being swarmed since boarding ignores HP and DR and most large and massives are optimised to fight their kin and not loads of small targets. Less top heavy lists have far better chances to deal with swarm attacks.

The fun thing is currently allmost all nations could build swarm lists wich are about as effective as the PE. The PE smalls are not special anymore. The Arminius is balanced and the Saxony is not better than most other corvettes. Most players simply don't do it.

Propably because PE players who played befor the new edition still have loads of smalls in their inventory and small swarms and boarding rush is concidered a PE thing.

The gab between the nations to do this much smaller than it used to be. The Arminius frigate with 2AP (aggressive) and a very good tesla gun is however still king of the hill for this in my book.

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The gab between the nations to do this much smaller than it used to be. The Arminius frigate with 2AP (aggressive) and a very good tesla gun is however still king of the hill for this in my book.

 

The Arminius still is a good frigate but its too expensive with 30 pts for a boarding rush list IMHO. You simply get more Saxonys for the same points. Three instead of two to be exact. Saxonys bring 2AP too (allthough with reckless) for 10AP per squadron instead of 8AP. Saxonys are faster. They can allmost move two full range bands. On top they have the elusive target MAR wich increases their survivability.

Because Saxony squadrons have 5 ships and a not bad turret as well they actually can put out more AD in RB1 and the same in RB 2 and 3.

For boarding rushes I would allways use swarms of corvettes instead of frigates for the reason that you get more and its mostly about numbers. 

This is why I said most nations can do it. The corvettes of most nations have 2AP and reckless like the Saxony. All come in squadrons of five. They are all fast and have elusive target. Some even have MARs that make them better at boarding.

 

Gunnery wise there are more effective Frigates out there than the Arminius but these lack the boarding capability. The Arminius is more of an all rounder than most other frigates. Its a much better all rounder than the Saxony as well because it also has AA and CC 2. Since its gun is tesla it can profit from harpooned targets as well. Its still a really good ship but to build up a swarm its simply to expensive IMHO. Not to expensive for what it does but compared to the Saxony wich does boarding rush better and for less points per ship.

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The Arminius still is a good frigate but its too expensive with 30 pts for a boarding rush list IMHO. You simply get more Saxonys for the same points. Three instead of two to be exact. Saxonys bring 2AP too (allthough with reckless) for 10AP per squadron instead of 8AP. Saxonys are faster. They can allmost move two full range bands. On top they have the elusive target MAR wich increases their survivability.

Because Saxony squadrons have 5 ships and a not bad turret as well they actually can put out more AD in RB1 and the same in RB 2 and 3.

For boarding rushes I would allways use swarms of corvettes instead of frigates for the reason that you get more and its mostly about numbers. 

This is why I said most nations can do it. The corvettes of most nations have 2AP and reckless like the Saxony. All come in squadrons of five. They are all fast and have elusive target. Some even have MARs that make them better at boarding.

 

 

True if you purely go for a boarding rush. This will only work however against a top heavy list. In all other situations when you face a more balanced list I think the Arminius is a far better choice. Damage output for a full size Arminius squadron is 15/13/5/- + rear tesla, Saxony has 15/9/3/-. Arminius has also better AA/CC and CR one higher (but is not elusive). So if you looking for an allrounder with the potential to support a boarding rush then I still think the Arminius is the better choice. I like it's flexibility. Doesn't mean I don't take Saxony's, I use corvettes for intercepting enemy frigates and distroyers.

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 Damage output for a full size Arminius squadron is 15/13/5/- + rear tesla, Saxony has 15/9/3/-.

 

A full squadron of Saxonys has 17/11/5 compared to a full squadron of Arminus 15/14/5. The Arminius has a slight edge in RB2 while the Saxonys have it in RB1. The rear tesla is rather situational. Sometimes you get to fire it and it does damage sometimes you don't. This is why I left it out of this argument.

 

I agree that a small swarm with bording focus works best against top heavy lists and more balance or bottom heavy lists have far better chances to fend them of. This is why I said small swarms are effective with the current meta game. As far as I can tell the majority of players prefer top heavy and very top heavy lists. Chances are you will have to play against one. Even if you encounter a balaced list chances are the player has little or no experience playing against bottom heavy lists. Wich can make a huge difference.

 

For my taste the Ed2 Arminius is a bit too all round. You pay for the rear tesla wich is highly situational. You also pay for the AA and CC. This drives the cost to 30 Pts with several features you might not need. 30 Pts really right on the edge. If your Arminius gets to use most of its features its well invested. For delivering AP and shooting the turret once or twice a Saxony squadron will do the same job for less points.

Its the same with the Stolz really. Its a fine ship and i really like the model and concept. IF you manage to get off one good slavo of a squadron and deliver the 12AP its well invested points if not its just too expensive. 30 Pts and 40 Pts per ship is not expendable anymore. Quite often being expendable is one of the key features of smalls.

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Last week there has been a discussion in the rules section of this forum wich is of intrest for all PE players. It also his a lot to do with tesla and tesla mayhem.

 

So I decided to repost so info here so everyone can benefit even if the doesn't follow the entire forum.

 

According to the 2.0 rules PE fliers can link their tesla bombs to other tesla weapons they carry.

Most players (including me) weren't aware of this before.

 

This has quite some implications for PE players and their opponents. The medium fliers get pretty dangerous in knife fighting distance because of this.

The Geier benefits the most. By linking the fore coils and bombs a full squadron can link for a massive AD28 attack over the fore 90° arc within 2". Over the rear arc they can still deliver AD24. This is a tesla attack and potentially can get devastating munitions. Do the exact math yourself and shiver in delight. Even without devastating such an attack can reliably double crit a shielded DN.

The Pflicht gets another trick it can pull off besides boarding. Over the froe 90° its AD24 for a full squadron and AD21 over the broadsides. Not as much as the Geier but still pretty impressive.

 

The Imperium and Gewitterwolke also benefit. For the Imperium its AD21 fore and AD18 broadside. For the G'wolke AD19 and AD17 respectively. With the two large Zeppelins the beauty is that they can deliver this amount of AD over the fore arc regardless of damage untill they are shot down. Both the coil and the bombs are tertiary weapons and thus immune to HP loss. This means they have the option do deliver a high AD attack when its often needed most and most other units can't anymore: during the later stage of a game. Turn 3, 4 or even later.

 

So what does this mean?

After all bombs only have 2" range so the ability to link them is rather situational.

 

IMHO its quite a nice addition to the PE arsenal. Most PE units want to get close anyways. Bombs have been used effectively before. So we loose nothing and gain something.

Deploying bombers especially the rather lackluster Geier now means to deploy a potentially devastating attack. Nobody can ignore this threat. This means the Geier now fits perfectly into the PE portfolio. Its another unit wich will close in quickly and unless stopped will do a lot of damage. The Pflicht become even more versatile and the two big fliers stay an effective threat to anything as long they are in the air. More target choices to be made by the opponent. More options for us to use. Win only situation.

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From the rule book, Specialized weapon section.

 

* Specialized Weaponry may only use firing options with other Specialized Weapons of the same type .

 

 

Here, 'type' means of special weapon, otherwise this sentence would be a simple restatement of part of the main rules for firing options, and there would be nothing prohibiting, for instance a (S) Heat lance linking with the (S) turrets and (S) Broadsides found on many French ships. 

 

 As that is clearly not correct, 'type' here must refer to the type of special weapon - Tesla, Energy, Heat etc

 

Second paragraph...

* Unlike other weapons, Specialized weaponry is always permitted to use viable firing options with other Specialized Weaponry of the same type, enabling them to perform Firing Options with a combination of Primary, Secondary and Tertiary Weapons.

 

Here we have a  statement the normal linking rules do not apply  - 'Unlike other weapons'. It  then goes on to tell us what rules do apply.

 

It is both intended and possible that when using specialized weapons, you can link unusual combinations of weapons. We wrote the rules to support unusual combinations of weapons that we might come up from both existing models and in the future.  LinkingTesla  Bombs and Tesla Gunnery weapons is fine.

 

 

If we had used the word  'class' or 'Kind' of instead of 'type' here, it would have been  totally unambiguous. As it is I will add this to the FAQ.

 

James, DW designer.

 

http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/12631-linking-tesla-weapons/?p=229888

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I fail to see how most Prussian players took this long to realize it.  Our group found it soon after the stats for the Elbe came out.

 

Yes, it can link the (S) Fore Spear with the giant (T) Tesla Cannon on the prow.

 

Tesla is the only specialist weapon that currently benefits from this rule, but it is clearly written there.

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Now imagine what would happen if China or Poland had Flamethrower bombs on their flyers

 

To be honest, the Fury Generator with Node is kinda like a napalm howitzer.

 

And I would be more concerned with the French getting Thermal Bombs to link with Heat Lances.

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And I would be more concerned with the French getting Thermal Bombs to link with Heat Lances.

 

To link with what?

Even if ALL other nation would get bombs wich are of their signature special type they couldn't link them since no other bomber is equiped with a special weapon. The PE fliers are special in this regard.

 

For RoF in particular not a single flyer. not even the Tourbillon. carrys any kind of heat lance. On top their bomb bays are pretty anemic AD whise.

The large and medium fliers of CoA do carry energy weapons but no bombs.

EotBS uses special munitions instead of special weapons. FSA have the sustained fire MAR and rockets. KoB has torps wich are regular t ordonance and RC doesn't really have any signature weapon at all.

 

So its not only currently a PE speciality but will likely stay one for some time. Not because the rules are exclusive but the requirements are. Currently tesla is the only special weapon that is deployed wide spread through the entire model range. Even on smalls and mediums. Its also rather short ranged and thus has high AD and is fully effective in RB 1. Looking at it closely its also one of the least special of the special weapons. It has lethal strike and redoubtable. Even if we take the Speerschleuder into account the only special weapon that is even less "special" are volley guns. Tesla is mainly special because of its proliferation.

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I fail to see how most Prussian players took this long to realize it.  Our group found it soon after the stats for the Elbe came out.

...

Tesla is the only specialist weapon that currently benefits from this rule, but it is clearly written there.

 

You are right. Personally I was amazed how obvious it is yet allmost nobody realised. Invluding me.

For my part I know why: Its completly unintuitive

When first presented this fact I: this can't be right!

Not because of the rules as such but thinking about how this could work in the context of the game world. How would they be able to time bomb impact and coil discharge. No other nation could do it. Looking at it from a meta game point of view it seemed undesirable that PE is the only faction that has this ability. So at first I thought it simply was a hole in the rules.

 

After taking a good night sleep the matter it seemed much less problematic. It was clarified that it is intended. It fits the PE modus operandi and is pretty situational.

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New models come out all the time.  We have renders for the heavy bombers but obviously no real stats.  A model could easily be equipped with both.

 

As for the reality on timing, this a wargame with tesla bombards and flying airfields.  Things get abstracted all the time.  That's fine.

 

And yes, it's a threat but is situational and hard to actually use.  Our main Prussian player has only pulled it off two or three times.  High risk and high reward sounds Prussian to me.

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Well, the heavy bombers might allow this for other nations. Allthough I really doubt it. The only h bomber exept for the PE one, wich obviously has a massive fore coil and a speerschleuder, that seems to carry a special weapon is the CoA one with energy turrets. The RoF h bomber has no visible heat lance. Same with the other nations. No speical weapons visioble. So IF the CoA h bomber does get energy bombs this would be the first non PE model that can do it. While currentl all medium and larger fliers of the PE can.

 

As for the reality on timing, this a wargame with tesla bombards and flying airfields.  Things get abstracted all the time.  That's fine.

 

Did you ever realise that the more fictional, fantastic and outright over the top a topic the longer its wikipedia entry it becomes... ;)

 

Its fine for me too. I just had to swallow it first.

 

Currently I see it for its shock value. Since no player I meet on a rgular base knows about this. It will be quite a supprise for them.

Personally I like bombing stuff. I did like the Geier before and used it quite regular. How to pull a bombing run off hasn't changed only that facing now matters and the numbers of AD goes up. I am quite sure it is possible to do it. If the Geiers now attract more attention and by this take it away from other units its fine too. Since Geiers didn't really pose a threat to large and massives before they usually were low on the target priority list. This might go from one extreme to the other. Once a player is on the receiving end of such a linked bomb attack he might give Geiers disproportionally amounts of attention. Who delivers the high AD short range attack, Geiers or other mediums, doesn't really matter.

 

High risk and high reward sounds Prussian to me.

 

Exactly. This is why I think its a good and fitting thing.
 

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had two games against two senior players of our community. 

 

Covenant of Antarctica

 

1x Euclid (Sky Dreadnought) - Aer. Massive - 275 - 1/1
Euclid | Add IG Mine Controller (12") - Aer. Massive - 20
2x Alea (Small Escort Flyer) - Aer. Small - 60 - 1/3
 
1x Daedalus-Beta (Large Flyer) - Aer. Large - 150 - 1/1
Daedalus-Beta | Replace Main Turrets (P) with E.Turrets (S) - Aer. Large - 0
3x Alea (Small Escort Flyer) - Aer. Small - 90 - 1/3
 
3x Ptolemy (Mine-Layer Flyer) - Aer. Medium - 180 - 2/3
 
5x Pytheus (Small Flyer) - Aer. Small - 125 - 2/5
 
1x Diophantus (Assault Carrier) - Nav. Massive - 200 - 1/1
Diophantus | Add IG Mine Controller (8") - Nav. Massive - 10
2x Galen (Escort) - Nav. Small - 50 - 1/3
 
1x Callimachus-Alpha (Time Orb) - Arm. Large - 90 - 1/1
 
Draw by mission, but I won due to massive point advantage. I had both undamaged submarines and my Carrier lost only 1 HP, though my mediums were gone and I had only 2 corvettes and one frigate left. But my opoonent had only his Carrier (and his escort), 2 Aleas andbomners left on table. The most awesome moment of the game was when my Sturmbringer inflict 3 critical hits on his Euclid.
 
Republique of France
 
1x Charlemagne (Dreadnought) - Nav. Massive - 285 - 1/1
Charlemagne | Add IG Cloud - Nav. Massive - 20
1x Écuyer (Support Cruiser) - Nav. Medium - 70 - 2/3
 
1x Saint-Malo (Heavy Battleship) - Nav. Large - 220 - 1/1
 
1x Cherbourg (Battle Cruiser) - Nav. Medium - 110 - 1/1
 
1x Cherbourg (Battle Cruiser) - Nav. Medium - 110 - 1/1
 
3x Dieppe (Cruiser) - Nav. Medium - 210 - 2/3
 
4x Lyon (Frigate) - Nav. Small - 100 - 2/4
 
5x Frelon (Small Bomber) - Aer. Small - 125 - 2/5
 
Full draw. I had left with 3 frigates, both submarines (1 lost 4 HP, the second is undamaged) and 1 Donnerfaust (3 HP left). My opponent had all frigates, cruisers (though 1 had 2 HP left) and 2 bombers. 
He prized my carrier and I prized his support cruiser. 
 
Overall, I love this list! 

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Hi, I was on the receiving end on the RoF side. As I was expecting, it was a very hard shell to crack. Those submarines throwing 20 dice under re-roll order from admiral and with harpoon are just insane. This was the first time my Charlemagne went down by gunfire.

Overall it was very challenging and interesting game, thanks to my opponent.

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Well, Id say that France's big ships ARE tough nuts as well. Well, to be honset, mediums went pretty easily, but Saint-Mailo and ESPECIALLY Charlemange are like blocks of steel. 

 

On other hand, what Naval Dreadnought AREN'T tough cookie? But their Strategic Value cab help to make bitter pill a bit sweetier.  

 

P.S. Still, those Heat Lances are insane! I thonk Pin-Point MAR is a tad overkill!!

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