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Infantry in buildings questions

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I have a couple of questions about infantry. The rules state that in order to embark into a structure, the entire squadron must be adjacent to it. So, if you have put one stand into a small bunker is it then impossible to put the rest of the squadron into a medium bunker as the squadron will be one stand short?

 

In a related question, the rules state that all stands in a building fire from the closest part of the building when these same stands are fired upon every stand that is able gains a cover save. Does this mean that a CQB attack needing 6s to hit must then run the gauntlet of cover saves from each stand present in the building needing only 4s? Or have I read this wrong? :unsure:

 

Confusedly,

Bob Bartels

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@Kabob - An Infantry Squadron may only Occupy a single building. So you could not split the Squadron between a small and medium building. The only way you could do this, is if before the game began, you and your opponent agreed that that two buildings counted as a single building...perhaps both buildings are closely located in a shared compound...

 

Are you thinking that you are needing 6's to hit the Infantry in CQB because they have Hard Target -2? If so, then this is incorrect. Hard Target -2 only applies to Main Ordnance Attacks, CQB attacks ignore things like Hard Target and Shields and will hit the Infantry on a 4+. They do get a Cover Save though, but only the Infantry Stands that have taken enough hits to be under threat of taking a point of damage and being destroyed will get a Cover Save.

 

So if you attacked a unit of 4 Infantry Stands (with a DR 4) in a building in CQB with 12AD. You would roll 12AD needing 4+ to hit. Lets say you got 7 hits. This would be 1 point of damage and 3 "Floating" hits. Because only 1 Infantry Stand is under threat from being destroyed, only 1 cover save is made, which is 2 Dice (Red Exploding Dice). If the Cover Saves saved 3 or less hits, it would be absorbed by the "Floating" hits, and the Infantry Stand would still be destroyed. If the Cover Saves saved 4 or more hits, then the "Floating" hits would absorb the first 3 saves and the extra saves would then be absorbed by the hits that were actually caused to the Infantry Stand, saving it from being Destroyed. 

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Adding to the example, if the CQB attack did 8 Hits, that would damage 2 different Infantry Stands, allowing you 4 Cover Save dice (2 per stand).  One Save will keep the second stand alive, but you'll need 5 Saves to keep them both in play.

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Thanks so much for the answers. I figured that I had to be wrong, I completely forgot about the difference between CQB and Main Ordinance attacks as regards Hard Target. I think that having some stands in a building and others in the open when there is a nice building to hide in within coordination is a little silly. I guess we'll house rule it!

 

Thanks again!

Bob Bartels

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The way I see it is that an Infantry Squadron is either in a building, or its not...there's no half in half out. I treat a building, no matter its size, kinda like a Transport, they even use similar rules to enter and exit. If you can't fit the entire Infantry Squadron on top of the building, then leave those you can't fit sitting off the table...just like you do when an Infantry Squadron enters a Transport...you assume they're inside and then put them off table until they next exit the Transport. Essentially, when an Infantry Squadron enters a building, for all intents and purposes, they become the building because all LOS and range etc is drawn to and from any part of the building. It's abstract, for sure, but its easy and quick and keeps the game flowing smoothly.

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The way I see it is that an Infantry Squadron is either in a building, or its not...there's no half in half out. I treat a building, no matter its size, kinda like a Transport, they even use similar rules to enter and exit. If you can't fit the entire Infantry Squadron on top of the building, then leave those you can't fit sitting off the table...just like you do when an Infantry Squadron enters a Transport...you assume they're inside and then put them off table until they next exit the Transport. Essentially, when an Infantry Squadron enters a building, for all intents and purposes, they become the building because all LOS and range etc is drawn to and from any part of the building. It's abstract, for sure, but its easy and quick and keeps the game flowing smoothly.

here!  here!

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Hmm... What about if the building model is physically too small to get the whole squad in base contact with it. I'm thinking of those tiny bunkers Spartan supplies and one of those 8 base squadrons of Relthoza drone infantry....

You can get almost exactly 8 bases around the building, requires literally surrounding it.

 

We've been just treating it that if the farthest base's movement can touch the building at all then they can enter. Standing there taking 5 min to form a pattern around a little building to have the entire unit simultaneously touch it before they enter is just silly.

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what has been bugging me is when you have the inf unit in the building and all measurements etc are taken from any part of it and that in some cases the bases may not physically fit so are of to the side, which base gets hit first in the damage allocation sequence? this is especially important with the upgraded bases at 5DR in some cases 6Dr as opposed to regular 3 or 4dr if the defender can just say the 5/6DR always get hit first it makes it so much harder to kill them of, especially if they have cover saves. normally in other situations you can at least have the chance to line up the weaker units to get hit first, thus reducing the units hitting power.

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Hey

just Dropping my ideas in

I believe that as long as all based are within embarcation distance all units can enter building even if they don't fit. I don't know if you would remove extra. But I personally would move them to closest building edge.

As rules also state closest target takes damage first it would only be closest stand within the building to attacks that would take initial damage and work towards the furthest away units in building.

In next available move I would them move any units outside building replace destroyed bases.

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I would think the fairest way to determine which bases are closest is for the player to arrange his bases on the building in the general "position" they are in the building.  While the distance to all bases is that to the building, the closest model would be determined by the relative position of the bases on the building.  That way, if the Breacher Teams are on the West side of the building with the Gun Teams behind them, attacks from the West will Hit the Breachers first while those from the East will hit the Gun Teams first.  Attacks from the North would hit a Breacher Team then a Gun Team (or vice versa) depending upon if the attack is coming from a bit more West or East.

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I would think the fairest way to determine which bases are closest is for the player to arrange his bases on the building in the general "position" they are in the building.  While the distance to all bases is that to the building, the closest model would be determined by the relative position of the bases on the building.  That way, if the Breacher Teams are on the West side of the building with the Gun Teams behind them, attacks from the West will Hit the Breachers first while those from the East will hit the Gun Teams first.  Attacks from the North would hit a Breacher Team then a Gun Team (or vice versa) depending upon if the attack is coming from a bit more West or East.

 

But this only works as long as the building is big enough to accomodate all infantry bases. Small bunkers or building from the dualbox are all big enough for 1-4 bases while full squads have up to 6 bases. Yesterday we had to assign numbers to all bases and just roll randomly each time they got hit. Although it's a solution, it's also not a great one.

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In all honesty, the way I have been working it out is that the lower DR bases are last to be removed if fired upon in a building, Much like (most) vehicles armor gets weaker as it is damaged.

 

Officers generally are the last to die in a platoon...

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Well the rules do say you have to "Agree on priority chain." (Pg102, sec. 3) It does say you're determining the order in which models will be hit on a closest to furthest basis, but the reasoning for this rule I imagine is so nearly equidistant models order of priority is determined before firing rather than after. Seeing as all the infantry in a building are technically exactly the same distance I see the spirit of this rule particularly applying. (Yes the spirit of the rule, as in RAI. I don't see a RAW reading in the book applying so I'm rolling over to RAI.) Typically if there are two differing models in the unit at what appear to be the exact same distance I'd let the firer choose as their unit is going to concentrate fire towards the primary threat (aka the Nexus Designator if they want to cripple my skydrops.) Semi-large, easily identifiable, not quickly(relatively) moving targets in decent view; only logical the commander is going to order the unit to "focus fire on the ____."  Infantry I'd handle a little different though, small targets in cover within a large building. Targeting the Commander or the 'guys with the rocket launchers' wouldn't be as easy. At the same time it'd be hard to miss the enemy incoming with the size of most of our vehicles, any intelligent commander will (and should have time to) send forward the more resilient or expendable squads to take the brunt of the assault. That being said it's only logical to me to allow the targeted player to determine priority before the attack.

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So, as all models use any part of the occupied building for range and LOS, it's fair to say that all bases are equidistant. The closest thing I can find that would match that would be the targeting priority for artillery strikes. I'd imagine that would be the "best" way to handle that. Lowest DR to highest DR, defender flat out decides for ties. Just an opinion though, can't really back it up with rules.

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