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alamo

Heroes of Tarxon VI Discussion

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After the frenzied downloading of the vet orbats[[yeah me]] what do the mk1 players think of the heroes?

 

Managed to sift thru the resin pile and was able to without every option[ie light tanks not quite enough to max out] come up with a core, assault,field support, 2 heavy, 2 air with some left overs like a pile of APC's.

 

What have the rest of mk1 players done with yours?

 

ps glad to see the Din. light suits didn't make it into the orbats, they are a very odd mini.

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Honestly, I haven't made up my mind yet.

I am still going through the stats while looking at my Mk 1 models and all I can think is: Damn, I'm gonna have to rebase a lot of these, and then I'm gonna have me one helluva planetary strike force. Makes me a sad happy panda. :lol:

 

I don't have a clue for what to do with my terrans.

 

But Dindrenzi-wise I think I'll most likely go for a full core with full additions and a full assault with full additions as I just love those battle robots and those little dagger buggers, 2x full aerial and 2x heavy support wthout additions. I don't have the slightest idea if this will be an effective organization at all, but it sure will be fun! :)

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Good question... I've got enough models for a beefy core or two, but then I need to source some decent alternatives for the non-starter models. I'd probably try to construct a Terran Marine QRF force, so Air and Assault should be the focus.

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IF @nightgamer you decide to rebase the only concerns are the heavy inf[only 6 bases max] and the night gaunts, Kerberos and the haros. The terran inf will be rebasing but if you and your folks are cool with the bases as is, why worry. I pm'ed Delboy and it depends and you and what your group wants to do.

 

A hero vs  hero WILL be interesting to say the least and the rebasing isn't that bad should you decide to do so. Some of the options will the AA vehicles and the number of light tanks may be a problem if you go deep into force building. hope this helps. Delboy has posted the bases sizes but if you have the battlebox then the sizes are already there.

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Don't have any vet models myself so haven't used it, but the stats/point costs look fairly in line with the standard orbats even if hex structures are significantly different.

They aren't designed to be balanced against standard orbats though. Thus why they have the opponents permission clause.

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don't have my stat sheet handy but depending on what you own from the mk1 models some of the helixes are in for a tough time, ie din. heavy armor. I didn't bother to buy many daggers or pilums as in the Invasion game you really didn't need much anti-air and the din. orbat is just full of pilums which can make for very uneven helix building.

 

Still thinking/working on this........

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It seems that the heroes are really light on take and hold units. And if you can elim. 1 or 2 light units the heroes have a tough time holding any objectives. Since the use of inf is limited and I didn't buy too many light tanks under the mk1 rules these vet helix seem a little brittle.

 

The Din. heavy support pales by comparison to the Terran and I do understand why this is but wish there was some way to add more inf units or availability of light armor to the vets. Maybe some way to add more Gaunts and Valenfyres to the orbats......

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Unfortunately not, but I'm looking, believe you me...

Current best bet it to find something in 6mm, I've been looking at a few IFVs and other light armoured vehicles that could proxy as a size class smaller (6mm armoured -> 10mm light), but I've not jumped the gun and ordered anything yet.

I'm not ruling out converting Triptychs either (or using flatbed Triptychs as Valkyries, and with cargo containers as actual transports).

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ya know that is not a bad idea, I've got a bunch lying around..........will think on this and thank you.

 

Hey Alamo!

I don't know what size Battletech is, but just from the look of it a lot of the tanks for that system could easily be used as a Valenfyre substitute.

How many Valenfyres do you own / need? I am asking, because I still have a few lying around that have little miscastings and thus back then I got replacements for them!

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Hey Alamo!

I don't know what size Battletech is, but just from the look of it a lot of the tanks for that system could easily be used as a Valenfyre substitute.

How many Valenfyres do you own / need? I am asking, because I still have a few lying around that have little miscastings and thus back then I got replacements for them!

Battletech is 6 mm and the tanks I have seen are far too small. A closer analogue would be mechwarrior:dark age but they come based and painted.

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@nightgamer, yeah I'm looking for at least 3 of the din.dagger light tanks, which are tracked. At this point I don't really care too much on exactly what they look like as I will try to blend them in the 3 model sqd. I have a lot of mk1 stuff that really doesn't fit the hero orbats and doesn't really fit the new mk2 models.

 

@althorin, great idea as I have somewhere a bunch of old mech  and I had never thought of that...thanks for the catch.

 

btw guys thanks for your ideas and imput. got around 6000pts of heroes organized .....almost.

 

I converted some mech over for Invasion b4 the heavy models were released.

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If anyone has played with the vets I'm sure you noticed the Terran heavy armor is a BEAST when loaded while the Din. is really carb lite in comparison. I understand why when you put the helixes together but not what I expected.

 

With 2 TD sqds in that Terran heavy armor helix they can really tear stuff up.

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@ Alamo
Sorry, there seems to have been a misunderstanding. I thought you were looking for some Valenfyre tanks. I misread your post and did put in "Valenfyre" when it really did say "Valkyrie".

Unfortunately I only own six Daggers and six Valkyries myself, wish I had more.

Concerning the Terran Veterans: Yes, they do pack a punch with 2 TD's! :-)

I am not all too impressed with the Dindrenzi Vet Helix though. But I'm still lacking additional gaming experience, so.....

 

But honestly that can't help me get over being really disappointed in the fact that the old Terrans don't blend in with the new models. Not the slightest bit!! Except for the Tryptich and Valkyrie which fit into the new concept very good.

The Dindrenzi on the other hand blend in perfectly with the new units, except for the Stormcaller / Pillum. Even the Longbow and the Dagger blend in, although these are tracked tanks, but they do follow the same rule of design as all the other models.

 

So I've decided to change the look of my Terrans as much as I can to make them blend in. I have started to rid the Valenfyres of their main guns and am now thinking which replacement would fit best. I also started fitting the Valenfyres with mini-guns on the back of the turret. I hope changing most of the weapons will do the trick.

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@nightgamer, nice idea on those Terrans. Overall I find there really isn't a lot of symmetry with heroes. the cores seem to be organized around the purchase of starter boxes with the blisters as add ons. While I understand that Del has no way to know what everyone bought 2 years ago and how much they have he did a great job with what he had and that is all we can ask.

 

The hero helixes just don't sinc well with the mk2 helixes if you add them in and again if you have a bunch of mk1 Valenfyres and you only need max 9 for one core there is a lot of stuff that has no apparent use. the hero cores don't have much inf and no light tanks so take and hold can become a problem and if you don't own a bunch of daggers and pilums it is hard to fill helixes.

 

At some point I would HOPE Delboy would revisit the vet orbats or give us players some guidance on how we can add/change the vet helixes just for our own collections so they still would be somewhat compatible.

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@ alamo:

Yesterday evening I had a game and lost horribly, relying only on a Terran Veteran Force. It was my second game with only Vets and my sixth game overall, so I am sure that I'm not get "the big picture" right now. So today, having a day off, I took the time to get a better look at the Vet Helixes.

 

You're right, they totally lack additional Light Tanks and Infantry. Take & Hold is nearly impossible if you loose one squadron! I understand that the Vet Infantry is much harder to crack and does more damage (though I do not understand why people in little battlesuits are worse at CQB than unarmored troops), but what is it good for if you can only occupy so few buildings at a time. We do not have Light Tanks in the Core Helix and only half the infantry others have.

 

Additionally, if you were buying the old models you did not care much about AA since there weren't really any aerial vehicles around, except the two gunships and those were too point-costly back then. But the Vet Helixes are full of AA?!

 

Then I saw what you meant by saying that we now have a lot of the old models just lying around with no more apparent use. It was a tank game back then, so you bought tanks! Lots of 'em! I had no idea until I really checked my models. :-(

 

Also I am very disappointed in the fact that a MAW-09 squadron consists of only one model?! And this squadron can only be used once in the whole force building process! Come on, really?! They were sold as a squadron of two and are some of the coolest old models!!

 

I agree that Delboy did a good job by trying to create something playable and that he couldn't know what everybody had bought. But some parts of these Vet helixes are just inconsistent. The Terran and Dindrenzi Vet Helixes definitely need to be re-worked, if Spartan wants them to be of use for old customers!

 

Overall now I think that the Vet Helixes were just put together in a way to make people use them as "counts as"-models anyway. Look at the weapon stats, they have nearly been completely adjusted to the new models. Except most of the old weapons now look really stupid, because they do not resemble the function the stats give them. The individuality is nearly gone. And while I understand why this was done in respect to new customers who didn't buy the old models it feels somehow hollow.

 

 

@ delboy:

I hope I did not step over the line too much with my criticism, you're doing fine with the new models! ;-)

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Well Alamo, judging from the number of members (5) who have posted here and the number of posts (22) this thread has generated since it was started (nearly 4 months ago!!!) I would say the chances of getting the Vet Helixes fixed are very slim to non-existent. :mellow:

 

There seems to be no interest at all in this issue (though I do remember many people asking what would happen to their old models when the new version was announced), hence my original statement that the stats where meant to "gently force" people to use them as "counts as"-models. Either this is what all of the people who bought the old models do, or we are just not able to understand how to play the Vet Helixes right?! I would not complain, if those inconsistencies were to appear only in the last couple of days because of some re-writing that had been done, but looking at the release date of the Vet Helix Stats nothing has changed (not even the typos) since then.

 

So, I have decided to NOT buy an additional Core Helix for Terrans and Dindrenzi (there you have it Spartan) and instead use my old models to get the Core to full strength. I guess this is what Spartan wants? This of course means that I will have to re-base most of my models which I will do in the coming weeks (hopefully). Sad to know, that I invested so much in the game back at the time...... :wacko:

 

Before I quit whining, let me adress Delboy again: Why could we not have had an easier system for our old models like it was done in Firestorm: Armada??!! No complains there!! Why not just let the Terrans and Dindrenzi have two entries at some places in the new stats that let us decide whether to use the old model with slightly different stats or the new one. It works pretty good for Armada where you can choose to have the old model resemble an older, less advanced version of the ship type by not fitting it with all the technical toys and MAR's and thru that pay less points?? Thanks Delboy for (hopefully) reading this! Nah, what am I thinking here, as if anybody from the top department would really take the time.... -_-

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I'm one of the old ones, and so far I've yet to play a game using my Veterans.

Until I've sourced some alternate models to fill out the other helixes I don't really see myself doing it, either.

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I've got a ton of Valenfyres just parked......

 

@ alamo

 

So do I.

Let's start a business together, we could call it "Rent-A-Tank"! :lol:

Honestly alamo, no one except us is reading anything in this thread anymore.

We haven't got a single response from Delboy, although this thread was on top of the list for two weeks since we wrote forth and back about the Veteran Helixes. So I guess the people in command don't care about us old guys anymore. Like I said before, I will rebase and use my old models as "counts as".

Also in a personal act of resistance and disappointment for having spent so much money on now useless models, I have decided to stop buying Planetfall stuff for some months in order to reconsider my investments. :ph34r:

Regardless of this decision I will continue to support my favourite spaceship-game: Firestorm Armada! :)

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