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Tower75

Are torpedoes in DW dumb?

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Bear in mind that many DW ships sail faster than the aircraft!

 

The initial launch of a Torpedo is faster, due to the speed of the launching vessel and the blast of compressed (sturgenium enhanced) air, however if they ran very slowly then you could in theory run it over.

 

But - why make a Torpedo that runs that slowly?  Most DW Torpedos can cover 3 or 4 range bands in an activation - I've yet to see any DW vessel that fast!

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Bear in mind that many DW ships sail faster than the aircraft!

 

The initial launch of a Torpedo is faster, due to the speed of the launching vessel and the blast of compressed (sturgenium enhanced) air, however if they ran very slowly then you could in theory run it over.

 

But - why make a Torpedo that runs that slowly?  Most DW Torpedos can cover 3 or 4 range bands in an activation - I've yet to see any DW vessel that fast!

The only way I can see this working in any believable way involves the CoA accidentally teleportating a ship into the path of it's own torpedo.

 

P.S. What ships are faster then aircraft? Yes some of the large and medium flyers are slower then small ships but just because a speed boat was faster then a Zeppelin does not mean that it was faster then a torpedo.

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What ships are faster then aircraft? Yes some of the large and medium flyers are slower then small ships but just because a speed boat was faster then a Zeppelin does not mean that it was faster then a torpedo.

Saxony has a 15" move, Tetsubo has 13" move, SAW fighters have 16" move.

I can't see why you think any of those are faster than a torpedo that effectively has a 32" move!

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The funny thing is that some earlier real world torpedoes could actually be slower than the ship that launched them. Destroyers in WW1 (including those built from 1900ish) had speeds of 30-35 knots. Torpedoes of a similar era tended to have low (they had low or high speeds) speeds of 25-40 knots.

Of course, once again, Dystopian Wars is not real life.

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Stuginium Torpedo engines makes the torpedoes go way faster then any ship. 

If torpedoes indeed travel 32 Inche in 1 turn makes them fast because 1 RB was calculate 240 meters if not mistaking so torpedoes can travel around 1 km in 1 activation. now we cannot put an amount of time to 1 turn DW but 1km in 1 activation is darm fast ;)

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Well, for torpedoes to hit surface skimmers there isn't too much difficulty.  If you look at the pictures from the cover of the first little French booklet, the bottom of the ship is still below the surface of the water, so if the torpedo is travelling at the surface, they would still hit the ship.

 

I would guess that most torpedoes in Dystopian Wars are magnetically guided towards enemy ships, rather than just point and hope.  Also, why are people concerned about a 3% hit rate?  Assuming a squadron of Agincourts fires a full salvo at an enemy battleship, it wouldn't be impossible to imagine that they fired maybe 50 torpedoes from the salvo.  Of course this is if you imagine that the torpedo tubes are spring loaded something like the FSA turrets, and then if just one torpedo hit the enemy ship, a 2% accuracy rating, that torpedo could cause horrible damage to a ship, making the critical hit you just got on that Emperor suddenly realistic.

 

@Tower75:  Britannia seems to be designed kind of as the stoic nation that doesn't use any of this new-fangled tech and sticks to the tried and true methods of victory.  Therefore they got guns and torpedoes, and then they got shields because that seems more Britannian than arcing tesla weapons or teleporting things.

 

 

If we are debating how torpedoes in Dystopian Wars work, how do the shields work?  If they stop enemy shells from passing the shield barrier, how do the shells that the ship itself fires pass through the barrier unimpeded?

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I have a theory made a while ago about shield generators, this was a reaction on someone about why a "new" CoA Sub could have a Shield 1 Generator and why the Arronax doesnt have one.

 

Projectmanhatten5, on 25 Jun 2014 - 7:11 PM, said:

And a shield is a good idea. The Arronax doesnt have a shield because it is a drill (Read the Fluff) and is most of the time surrounded by rock and ice which are solid. The fluff about shield gens is that it are "bubbles" of energy protection the model. Reducing the kinetic force from incoming projectiles when a projectile is going very fast (thats why bombs, rams/collisions, mines and Mag exp. ignore shields). In my scientific opinion it is not possible to place an energy field (Which shields are) around a model that is surrounded by solid rock. The submarine can have a shield because water is not solid but the shield would be weaker thats why it has Shield 1 gen. So giving the "new" submarine a shield is logical. And no dont say: yeah but then they could give a shield to the Arronax that only works when it is not underground. because why would je give a drill a shield when it is 9/10 times underground.

Also think about a shield as an Kinect Field. It pushes Kinect energy  to the outside creating a barrier for incoming projectiles because the 2 kinetic forces collide, it will not be much force considering that 7/10 times some weapons go trough it. And that also explains why vessel inside the shield can fire trough it. Kinect energy is pushed to the outside from the inside (haha Linkin Park reference...sorry :P ).

 

That is also why torpedoes and Rockets lower the Shield to Heavy Dice, there travelling speed is not high enough so that the kniectic field could reduce its speed drasticly 

 

So is this an answer to you question?

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I have a theory made a while ago about shield generators, this was a reaction on someone about why a "new" CoA Sub could have a Shield 1 Generator and why the Arronax doesnt have one.

 

Projectmanhatten5, on 25 Jun 2014 - 7:11 PM, said:

And a shield is a good idea. The Arronax doesnt have a shield because it is a drill (Read the Fluff) and is most of the time surrounded by rock and ice which are solid. The fluff about shield gens is that it are "bubbles" of energy protection the model. Reducing the kinetic force from incoming projectiles when a projectile is going very fast (thats why bombs, rams/collisions, mines and Mag exp. ignore shields). In my scientific opinion it is not possible to place an energy field (Which shields are) around a model that is surrounded by solid rock. The submarine can have a shield because water is not solid but the shield would be weaker thats why it has Shield 1 gen. So giving the "new" submarine a shield is logical. And no dont say: yeah but then they could give a shield to the Arronax that only works when it is not underground. because why would je give a drill a shield when it is 9/10 times underground.

Also think about a shield as an Kinect Field. It pushes Kinect energy  to the outside creating a barrier for incoming projectiles because the 2 kinetic forces collide, it will not be much force considering that 7/10 times some weapons go trough it. And that also explains why vessel inside the shield can fire trough it. Kinect energy is pushed to the outside from the inside (haha Linkin Park reference...sorry :P ).

 

That is also why torpedoes and Rockets lower the Shield to Heavy Dice, there travelling speed is not high enough so that the kniectic field could reduce its speed drasticly 

 

So is this an answer to you question?

 

Kind of like in Dune?

 

So you need to shed some speed (e.g. rockets and torpedos go slower than shells) to get through the shield better - explains the different effect shields have.

 

I can picture Delboy and James sitting around watching Dune as well!

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I think the OP's question can be answered by one thing. Sub Hunter. If the torpedoes where "dumb" they wouldn't get a bonus to hit something the firing ship can barely target. All the SAS Torpedo planes get bonuses to hit subs and there is no way they've got a decent (or any) sensor fix on that sub.

So I'd say Sturginium homing sensors guide the torps. It does everything else, so why not a signature the torps can track?

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I wouldn't call torpedoes dumb. I wouldn't take too many units that rely on them either though. Like Sanguinary Dan mentioned, they're excelent against subs and the fact that they don't degrade with damage doesn't hurt either. Take too many torpedo units and you'll probably get into trouble with targeting and LOS.

 

A good balance is advised I think.

 

Cheers,

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I wouldn't call torpedoes dumb. I wouldn't take too many units that rely on them either though. Like Sanguinary Dan mentioned, they're excelent against subs and the fact that they don't degrade with damage doesn't hurt either. Take too many torpedo units and you'll probably get into trouble with targeting and LOS.

 

A good balance is advised I think.

 

Cheers,

 

Dumb not as useless, rather as a category of ordnance like in real life, meaning without a guidance system. Dumbfire ordnance.

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Torpedoes are more than twice as fast as the ships....

Fastest ship that can fire torpedoes is ~15" a turn
RB4 torpedoes hit their target in the same turn so are >32" a turn

That's before we even look at the Faster Torpedoes :P


That has however got me thinking about how cool it would be to have a torpedo marker travelling 20" a turn, Sharp Turn using a large turning template and a special rule that it must turn to towards its nominated target unless already on track. That would make fixed channel weapons more useful as well as allowing defenders to either aggressively attack the torps or to sacrifice a vessel to block them. Would of course play merry hell with the RBs and the strength of the attack...

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Torpedoes are more than twice as fast as the ships....

Fastest ship that can fire torpedoes is ~15" a turn

RB4 torpedoes hit their target in the same turn so are >32" a turn

That's before we even look at the Faster Torpedoes :P

That has however got me thinking about how cool it would be to have a torpedo marker travelling 20" a turn, Sharp Turn using a large turning template and a special rule that it must turn to towards its nominated target unless already on track. That would make fixed channel weapons more useful as well as allowing defenders to either aggressively attack the torps or to sacrifice a vessel to block them. Would of course play merry hell with the RBs and the strength of the attack...

Games that do things like that  tend to represent the strength of the salvo by how many torpedoes are still in the water/space so you wouldn't have RB dice you'd have 'fish in the water'.  Also you probably wouldn't have range, you'd have torpedo fuel.

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Torpedoes are a worthwhile and useful weapon system in DW because they are an iconic symbol of naval combat, if not historically the most useful of weapons, and because to stick with historical accuracy in a game which clearly does not strive for that but rather a referencing of famous concepts and deny the use of torpedoes as a weapon system in the game would be silly. Variation is the spice of life, and that torpedoes are in there and useful means that the game can be broader and deeper, with no real loss at all.

 

I'd imagine that most torpedoes are fire and forget weapons without guidance systems in DW, though, mostly because to have otherwise would be drone tech, and drone tech is limited to the CoA. And they have drones, which are markedly different from their torpedoes. So yeah, not guided. I tend to think that CoA torpedoes are just notably fast, which is why they retain damage and are so hard to defend against, but pack a smaller charge as a result compared to bigger, slower KoA torpedoes which are also more likely to diverge off target (hence the reduced dice pool at longer ranges).

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Excuses me...Drone tech limited for the CoA...I dont think so.

more then the half of the CoA Army is based on Drones, Their Aeroplanes are drones. So yeah their torpedoes will be drone guided 2, explains the Faster Torpedoes and the overall AD on all ranges.

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Pretty sure Solar was saying that drone tech is limited to CoA, meaning only they have drone technology, not that they have limited drone technology.  What would explain the EotBS faster torps or the Italians?

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Excuses me...Drone tech limited for the CoA...I dont think so.

more then the half of the CoA Army is based on Drones, Their Aeroplanes are drones. So yeah their torpedoes will be drone guided 2, explains the Faster Torpedoes and the overall AD on all ranges.

 

That's why I said limited to the CoA, not limited for the CoA.

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