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Success with voltaire

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Back in 1.1, they were under priced and murdered every small squadron on the water.  They always have been a tad flimsy, but now that they lost some of their RB2 punch and went up 15 points, plus losing torps for the easier to defend against rockets, they are now great anti-aircraft mediums that just stay obscured and murder other aerial models.  They can still come down and meep a few smalls or a cruiser, but due to the increase in cost and how deadly everything else has gotten, it's tougher to get your points worth out of them.  Good models, good stats, but specific role.

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Well from no-brainer to highly situational takes getting used to, admittedly. So far I rarely felt they were worth their points, but my opponents don't haven't used lots of aircraft so far. The fear of French dominance in the skies is rooted too deeply it seems. :D

 

Against surface targets I don't see them getting back their points, but SAS fear them and small fliers go down in flames. I found them to lack some punch against heavy stuff, though, since they rarely reach their targets without losing one or two HP on the way.

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For almost the same cost you have the Furieux (5 or 10 points more if you take aggressive crew) that I found much more versatile:

- Voltaire and Furieux have the same AA so same effectiveness against SAS.

- Voltaire is much better against small aircrafts.

- Furieux has more range and fire power with his gun: 10/8/6/4 against mediums and larges.

- Furieux can board stuff.

- Furieux can bomb or throw mines.

 

Maybe the Voltaire can be useful in very big games but under 2000 pts I much rather take 3 Furieux than 3 Voltaires.
 

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Hmm.  A very good point.  With that in mind, I had to take a side by side comparison of the Voltaire with the EotBS DFA-170.  I was wondering if the 65 point cost of the new Voltaire was fully justified when for five points more we can get such a superior airship.

 

Voltaire and DFA-170 are both 65 points.

- Both have same move, DR, HP, and CC.  Both have the Momentum MAR.

- Voltaire has better AA and IR by one and Evasive +1, while the DFA-170 has an extra AP and CR.

- Both have fore fixed rockets.  The Voltaire has 6/5/4 linking to 12/10/8.  The DFA-170 has 4/5/7 linking to 8/10/14 with Incendiary.

- The big difference is the Voltaire's 6/5/3 fore guns linking to 12/10/6 with Hunter (Aerial +1) vs 8 AD incendiary bombs.

 

Overall, with a side by side comparison like this, the model is definitely priced appropriately.  We still have a great volley in RB2 of double 10 AD strikes, and can put some nasty dice out in RB1.  The problem is getting there.  Without any form of defensive MAR aside from the chance at Evasive maneuvers, it's best to keep them up in the clouds until a good shot in RB2 as one of our later activations.  They need to be able to bring down a cruiser and a group of smalls to earn their points, and for that, they need to hit a couple things hard in RB2, then clean up the rest in RB1.  That's the best advice I have on them, and if used right, they will accomplish their goal, and then the enemy will still have to bring them down.  

 

One thing to help accomplish this is to take a ship that's more defensive and rush it up ahead of the Voltaire's line of attack to absorb more firepower for them.  The La Rochelle with a cloud gen and nul gen is perfect for this role with its redoubtable heat lance/lancette and RA(2).  It'll take some punishment, sure, but when your Voltaires drop from the clouds to punish your adversary for moving up to try and capitalize on your "blunder," it'll be they who regret getting too close.  Vive la France!

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Though I didn't like Voltaire in 1.1 because of lots of bad luck with them, I really enjoy to use them in 2.0 mostly because they are now faster, able to make swift maneuver back to obscured, and the most important - they are the only RoF unit able to hit stratospheric fliers on 5+. And thanks to redoubtable AA even having 1 HP left they still posses 4 AA. All that make it a true interceptor which it should be. 

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The other trouble I have with the Voltaire is the arc of fire of its weapons: both are fore, considering that rockets are the less effective weapon against flyers (because they usually have high AA), I want to use them against surface targets while I shoot at flying ones with the guns. Then it's not simple to put your Voltaire in a position where it can do both. I think I would have like this plane better if its rockets were aerial hunter +1 as well.

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Agree with limitations mentioned, but if you need an air hunter this is what you got. I took it against a combined FSA Lee x3 and PYB2 x4. I closed with both. The Lee broadside was tough, but with the initiatve I was able to clobber both units.

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I was looking at the mediums air units of the FSA, 3 have hunters Aerials, as an heavy interceptor, the most suited for the task is the John Henry, in fact I found it is a better Voltaire:

 

- First it cost 70, 5 pts more than the Voltaire.

 

- The robot has a canon 7/6/5 and rockets 4/5/6 both with aerial hunter, Voltaire has a canon 6/5/4 (not as good) and rockets 6/5/4 without aerial hunter. So the weapons of the John Henry are better. Beside J H is redoubtable so even with 1 HP left the canon shot at 6/5/4 as good as the canon of the Voltaire with full HP. 

 

- Then the stats, DR/CR/HP are identical, the Voltaire has 3 AP defensive, J H has 2 AP but it's a robot, Voltaire has 5 AA 1 more than the J H but J H is redoubtable.

 

- About the defensive MAR, Voltaire has evasive manoeuvre +1 and the J H has rugged construction 1. I found 4+ evasive manoeuvre less reliable than rugged construction, beside the J H has 5+ to go obscure as well.

 

So I would take the J H as an heavy interceptor because it hits hard and is durable; you even can reliably hurt large air unit at RB3 with 10 dices combine attack with air hunter. So the J H is a great heavy interceptor while the Voltaire is above average for 5 pts less.

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I was looking at the mediums air units of the FSA, 3 have hunters Aerials, as an heavy interceptor, the most suited for the task is the John Henry, in fact I found it is a better Voltaire:

 

- First it cost 70, 5 pts more than the Voltaire.

 

- The robot has a canon 7/6/5 and rockets 4/5/6 both with aerial hunter, Voltaire has a canon 6/5/4 (not as good) and rockets 6/5/4 without aerial hunter. So the weapons of the John Henry are better. Beside J H is redoubtable so even with 1 HP left the canon shot at 6/5/4 as good as the canon of the Voltaire with full HP. 

 

- Then the stats, DR/CR/HP are identical, the Voltaire has 3 AP defensive, J H has 2 AP but it's a robot, Voltaire has 5 AA 1 more than the J H but J H is redoubtable.

 

- About the defensive MAR, Voltaire has evasive manoeuvre +1 and the J H has rugged construction 1. I found 4+ evasive manoeuvre less reliable than rugged construction, beside the J H has 5+ to go obscure as well.

 

So I would take the J H as an heavy interceptor because it hits hard and is durable; you even can reliably hurt large air unit at RB3 with 10 dices combine attack with air hunter. So the J H is a great heavy interceptor while the Voltaire is above average for 5 pts less.

 

Let's not forget that the J.H is also a low level flier with 360 degree move and 0" minimum move.

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I was looking at the mediums air units of the FSA, 3 have hunters Aerials, as an heavy interceptor, the most suited for the task is the John Henry, in fact I found it is a better Voltaire:

 

- First it cost 70, 5 pts more than the Voltaire.

 

- The robot has a canon 7/6/5 and rockets 4/5/6 both with aerial hunter, Voltaire has a canon 6/5/4 (not as good) and rockets 6/5/4 without aerial hunter. So the weapons of the John Henry are better. Beside J H is redoubtable so even with 1 HP left the canon shot at 6/5/4 as good as the canon of the Voltaire with full HP. 

 

- Then the stats, DR/CR/HP are identical, the Voltaire has 3 AP defensive, J H has 2 AP but it's a robot, Voltaire has 5 AA 1 more than the J H but J H is redoubtable.

 

- About the defensive MAR, Voltaire has evasive manoeuvre +1 and the J H has rugged construction 1. I found 4+ evasive manoeuvre less reliable than rugged construction, beside the J H has 5+ to go obscure as well.

 

So I would take the J H as an heavy interceptor because it hits hard and is durable; you even can reliably hurt large air unit at RB3 with 10 dices combine attack with air hunter. So the J H is a great heavy interceptor while the Voltaire is above average for 5 pts less.

 

 

If the JH was available to the French I would take it over the Voltaire in a heart beat. 

The FSA have a lot of units. So many that playing them all is quite difficult.

I have determined to try the Valley with the new specs.  This is a general problem when the company behind the game is a miniature model company. It has to sell models. So we have an embarrassment of riches.

 

I also find I am shying away from Aerial units. This is likely a learning process (figuring out how and WHEN to use them) and in the case of the FSA it is mitigated by low flyers. With the increased lethality combined with increased unit costs in Version 2.0, hiding units from enemy fire is even more important than in version 1.1. Hiding small and mediums behind tough defensive units and using every bit of terrain is a primary tactic. This makes flying units priority targets, both to prevent their attack on the units you are hiding and because they can't hide. Obscured and the universal availability of limited evasive maneuvers does not change them from being the priority targets. They get clobbered.  

 Pretty much everything gets clobbered in Version 2.0, the issue as mentioned above with the Voltaires, is can they get their licks in first.

Unfortunately for a number of models, a primary measure for me when taking a unit is the likelihood of the unit being able to be effective enough  in its first use. If they are dangerous but vulnerable, then it is likely that  a squadron will lose a ship, or a large will take enough damage to seriously reduce its attack. That means they need to have a way to approach relatively unscathed into effective range or I find a different unit that can. Many factors can play into this, Speed (which equals range in this calculation), defensive mars, DR/CR (especially CR), weapons survivability, (redoubtable, fear but larger AD weapons, shields)

Because of this I am playing more with subs and difficult/elusive smalls. I am taking the Reveres over the significantly nerfed Augustas. They fit the 2.0 environment better. Units that need to "stay out of the LOF" until turn 2 or three are a significant drag on the critical first two turn fire power needed in DW 2.0. The remaining units take more hits. Which mens the "late arrivals" better be pretty lethal when they do get into range. 

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If the JH was available to the French I would take it over the Voltaire in a heart beat. 

The FSA have a lot of units. So many that playing them all is quite difficult.

I have determined to try the Valley with the new specs.  This is a general problem when the company behind the game is a miniature model company. It has to sell models. So we have an embarrassment of riches.

 

I also find I am shying away from Aerial units. This is likely a learning process (figuring out how and WHEN to use them) and in the case of the FSA it is mitigated by low flyers. With the increased lethality combined with increased unit costs in Version 2.0, hiding units from enemy fire is even more important than in version 1.1. Hiding small and mediums behind tough defensive units and using every bit of terrain is a primary tactic. This makes flying units priority targets, both to prevent their attack on the units you are hiding and because they can't hide. Obscured and the universal availability of limited evasive maneuvers does not change them from being the priority targets. They get clobbered.  

 Pretty much everything gets clobbered in Version 2.0, the issue as mentioned above with the Voltaires, is can they get their licks in first.

Unfortunately for a number of models, a primary measure for me when taking a unit is the likelihood of the unit being able to be effective enough  in its first use. If they are dangerous but vulnerable, then it is likely that  a squadron will lose a ship, or a large will take enough damage to seriously reduce its attack. That means they need to have a way to approach relatively unscathed into effective range or I find a different unit that can. Many factors can play into this, Speed (which equals range in this calculation), defensive mars, DR/CR (especially CR), weapons survivability, (redoubtable, fear but larger AD weapons, shields)

Because of this I am playing more with subs and difficult/elusive smalls. I am taking the Reveres over the significantly nerfed Augustas. They fit the 2.0 environment better. Units that need to "stay out of the LOF" until turn 2 or three are a significant drag on the critical first two turn fire power needed in DW 2.0. The remaining units take more hits. Which mens the "late arrivals" better be pretty lethal when they do get into range. 

I really share your point about the air models when you look at the French fleet the Tourbillon is more or less as good as the Couronne: defensively if you keep the Tourbillon obscure it has  the equivalent of a cloud gen (5+) but as you said every enemy ship can start focusing on the Tourbillon and its other problem is that its main weapons the turrets and broadside diminish quickly with damage. Then with the Couronne you have the option to hide it behind a large ship or an island and 2 of your weapons are redoubtable and tertiary.

I have the same concern with the Furieux, on paper they are just great: cheap, great fire power, the mines that combine can hurt anything and aggressive for the crews cost 5 pts. Then they fly so they can be target by any adversary ships in range.

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I utterly lothed the Voltier in 1.1. they were the bane of my Orions and effective at everything except boarding.

our french players had entire fleets of them and they were far too over powered for their cost. I feel with redoutable ack makes them fatastic but very specific purpose. they are air hunters exclusivley. In a faction that aready has fantastic anti air they are less appealing.

 

 I use them from to time with my French now but that is mainly because I really like the miniature.

 

LaS

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I really like the Tourbillon, but agree on the point that the impossibility to hide it is pretty annoying.

 

I wouldn't take it as the only heavy hitter in the field, but if you have other squadrons which are equally dangerous for the enemy, he might leave the Tourbillon alone. I found that my enemies rarely focus on the Tourbillon as long as there is a LaRochelle or some Cherbourgs on the board.

 

Besides the Tourbillon has several incentives to be played really agressively:

  • Bombs and Rockets which are tertiary, so you never lose your complete arsenal.
  • It can move over obstacles and has advanced engines to actually pass most of them
  • In RB1 the Tourbillon is a nightmare for the enemy since its seondary weapons can shoot at whatever they want while all primaries aren't allowed to shoot back. If you manage to slip a Tourbillon between enemy formations it deals out lots of punishment with bombs and broadside/turret combos left and right. Not easy, but very rewarding.

Of course it's hard to compete with the Couronne especially since both carriers want to be in the enemy's face. But if you keep it obscured until it has some worthy targets it's in some aspects even more resilient than the Tourbillon: More DR/CR, Retardant Armour 1 and the option to keep safe from surface boarders. Especially the last one is big plus over the Couronne in my eyes.

 

Compared with the Voltaires things really turned around between editions: In 1.1 I always used one or two squadrons of Voltaires but rarely used the Tourbillon. Now I use the Tourbillon most of the times, while the Voltaires have no real purpose anymore (apart from hunting Russian repair ships) since my opponents rarely use aircraft against the French. Their secondary turrets take away one advantage of aircraft and the powerful AA makes it actually possible to damage heavy aircraft. So no one gives the Voltaires a good target. Sad for them :(

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I really like the Tourbillon, but agree on the point that the impossibility to hide it is pretty annoying.

 

I wouldn't take it as the only heavy hitter in the field, but if you have other squadrons which are equally dangerous for the enemy, he might leave the Tourbillon alone. I found that my enemies rarely focus on the Tourbillon as long as there is a LaRochelle or some Cherbourgs on the board.

 

Besides the Tourbillon has several incentives to be played really agressively:

  • Bombs and Rockets which are tertiary, so you never lose your complete arsenal.
  • It can move over obstacles and has advanced engines to actually pass most of them
  • In RB1 the Tourbillon is a nightmare for the enemy since its seondary weapons can shoot at whatever they want while all primaries aren't allowed to shoot back. If you manage to slip a Tourbillon between enemy formations it deals out lots of punishment with bombs and broadside/turret combos left and right. Not easy, but very rewarding.
Of course it's hard to compete with the Couronne especially since both carriers want to be in the enemy's face. But if you keep it obscured until it has some worthy targets it's in some aspects even more resilient than the Tourbillon: More DR/CR, Retardant Armour 1 and the option to keep safe from surface boarders. Especially the last one is big plus over the Couronne in my eyes.

 

Compared with the Voltaires things really turned around between editions: In 1.1 I always used one or two squadrons of Voltaires but rarely used the Tourbillon. Now I use the Tourbillon most of the times, while the Voltaires have no real purpose anymore (apart from hunting Russian repair ships) since my opponents rarely use aircraft against the French. Their secondary turrets take away one advantage of aircraft and the powerful AA makes it actually possible to damage heavy aircraft. So no one gives the Voltaires a good target. Sad for them :(

Concur Hamster,

The Tourbillon, like the Savannah, used to be one of the cheapest 10 HP models, not anymore. Never-the-less, the enemy doesn't like to see it on the table. I am not sure of the employment tactic for the Tourbillion. Keeping it out of play (obscured) until turn three will limit its damage but, if it isn't a AD magnet and it isn't doing any effective attacks, that's an expensive investment. I would love to see the Big T drop some bombs and mash some mediums with combined turrets and broadsides. The 16 inch Fury generator will capture some attention, especially on boarding specialists. I have never seen it get close, however and the Magenta or Couronne kinda outcompete it.

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I tried bombing runs in my last game since a couple of corvettes was handily parked in range. I tried area bombardment for the first and probably last time. Even though I had 5 corvettes within 1,5" of my left broadside, the effect templates deviated into oblivion and so I got friggin' two corvettes for one HP. So it was as ridiculous as I had feared it to be and in the future I will rather use normal bombs to clean up one target for sure and use the broadside and turrets to wipe away the rest. Area bombing is pretty useless in my experience, even if the enemy is kind enough to park viable targets close to the bomb shafts.

 

Don't be deterred by the "hitting on 5+" thing when the T is obscured - starting in RB3 it throws enough dice to be dangerous to mediums even with the 5+. And once you are in RB 2 (which should happen quickly with the combination of enemy movement and the movement of the T) you can come down and get nasty. Besides there is still the slight chance that you can hide after an attack. And if not the T can take a bit fire and in the next turn you can get in RB1 of the real nasty stuff.

 

I agree that the Couronne is a more solid choice in some ways, but if I have to choose between the Magenta and the T, I always go for the latter. Don't know why but my Magenta never pulls its weight. Most of the times it's a fire magnet (St. Joe knows why) and for some reason it always ends up with Half AD for most of the game. With the T put out more damage and it mostly stays on the board until the end of the game. Just a weird case of "doesn't work for me" I guess.

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