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Which large gun-ship would you recommend?

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I used to love the dread, but never took it due to it well.... being terrible.  Then they made the new one, which was so much better, and I brought it along all the time.

 

Now I can't decide what's better.  I will have a tenkei in my fleet, and a squadron of Tanuki's with an Arashi.  I will have two squads of Uwatsus.  I can't decide whether I'm better off taking a dreadnought, or perhaps a battleship with an Arashi - or a heavy battleship with an arashi?  I've only used the heavy battleship in a single demo game, and it performed well, but I have my sokotsu sitting around as well.  Since they can take escorts and the Arashi as an attachment, is that a better option than taking the Hachiman?  Better than the hachiman with escorts?

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The general consensus is that the Arashi is a stinker when it comes to being an attachment. For 10 points more, you can take a trio of Kitsune, which won't get in the way of your LoS, don't have iffy fire arcs (360 degrees versus Fixed Fore Channel), give more AA and CC to the parent model (3 of each versus 2 of each), and still give out the same amount of rockets, albeit in shorter range bands.

As for a large ship, I tend to prefer the Sokotsu over the Kaiju. It's a decent amount cheaper, and is still packing a whallop with near-identical defenses. What point size are you building the list for?

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Assuming you have a Naval Core I think you have quite a few options:

 

  • Haichman
  • Kaiju
  • Sokotsu
  • Ika
  • Mizuchi

These are pretty much your Naval heavy hitters and the size of your game will probably dictate what you include.

 

The Haichman is a big points investment and I struggle personally to get things into RB2 or closer and get most weapons systems in arc. So I usually have 2 turrets and rockets motoring forward and then have to come broadside which is fine but can be a little unwieldy.

 

The Kaiju. I love the Kaiju. Run it twice and it's resiliant and a heavy hitter too. It suffers again from the weapon arcs but is around 100pts cheaper than the Haichman so is a bit more cost effective.

 

The Sokotsu is good value for money - fits nicely with the Tenaki points-wise and is a hard nut to crack. I always take the sheilds (2) and bang for the buck it's probably the best.

 

The Ika. Used it may 4 times and only once has it really had a direct impact dettroying 2 Hood Class battlecruisers but if you go straight up the guts of the board with it your opponent is force to push a lot of damage it's way to try and stop it. I find it combos up with a set of heavy cruisers nicely.

 

The Mizuchi. I have some serious nerd-love for this little puppy! Great linked firepower, survivablity and is a great to team up with other large vessels. For me it's a 1+ choice for me

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Yeah I don't own a Mizuchi, and while the model looks neat (and I like to own at least 1 of every model in my chosen faction), I don't need triplicates of everything else that comes in the box it's sold with.

 

The Ika got me into the game, but now I wonder about it.  I feel like it's going to take damage a lot more quickly.  Also, while it's now able to fight, fight, and fight again without a lot of reduction in damage potential (I always hated boarding some escort and having them get lucky with a few exploding 6's, completely nerfing my ika) and go hunting for mediums, it seems like it really struggles against the large targets we used to love using it against so much.  It's neat that it gets to shoot its guns now, and also neat that they are secondary weapons to fire at full effect, but using AA against it for counterattack when it boards hurts, too.

 

I consider the Ika somewhat of a specialist, and was thinking along the lines of the gun-platform ships.  Seems like the Sokotsu wins for all but the larger games where the Hachiman can come out and play.  Thanks guys!

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It really depends on a) your points and B) your meta.

 

We always play at the 1600 bracket and the first two ships on my list without fail are the hachiman and Kaiju

 

The Hachiman is the dreadship in my fleet. My regular opponents ( KoB and RC ) are scarred to death of it, I think it really has improved so much since 2.0 it just pumps more and more dice and can shrug off all but the heaviest firepower. The Kaiju is a more recent 1+ choice, it is the swis army knife of battleships and can hunt most prey, its a medium killer. if you get the angles on broadsides combined with turrets it can easily wreck face on a squadron. Good crew and defences make it arguable the best of the new Heavy battleships. 

Im not saying the Sokotsu is bad, just always felt a little sub par when the extra 40 points on the Kaiju gets you so much more.

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And don't forget the Node projector on the Kaiju - your best friend when you go against the Shield-on-anything CoA - I have 2 and love them, the redheaded stepchild of the 3 big gun platforms in my book is the Sokotsu. as the two others just bring so much extra to the table, for the 180 you can get an other carrier in there ....

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Don't be disheartened about the Arashi til you've tried it. Fixed channels across a narrow frontage can actually be much better than 270 degrees (or even 360 degrees). How? Because, under Line of Sight, it's relatively easy to partially block line of sight for mediums or smalls with other smalls - just cover front and back, or centre, of your ship and it should be safe. But fixed channels offer pinpoint lines of sigh for which you get right will get the full value of your shot, even if your opponent practically surrounds their capital ship with escorts.

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I really like the the Kaiju as I have just had better luck with it. Second one is on the painting bench now :)

 

Sokotsu just hasn't been nice for me and I have fielded 2 of them in the past.

 

Hachiman I haven't played in 2.0 yet but despised in 1.1 and 1.0

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( on Ariashis) See, I used to pump 3 together for a huge rocket barrage, however now I always attach one to my Tanukis, Now most people will think I'm mad!!! you cant attach them to a squad that always moves up, and whilst that is the case it also makes the Tanukis the alpha strike targets, mainly because of the huge pools of AP which can board most dreadnoughts with east. Plus the extra dice in RB 3 and 4 makes their rocket volleys huge!

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Don't be disheartened about the Arashi til you've tried it. Fixed channels across a narrow frontage can actually be much better than 270 degrees (or even 360 degrees). How? Because, under Line of Sight, it's relatively easy to partially block line of sight for mediums or smalls with other smalls - just cover front and back, or centre, of your ship and it should be safe. But fixed channels offer pinpoint lines of sigh for which you get right will get the full value of your shot, even if your opponent practically surrounds their capital ship with escorts.

 

I disagree. In the scenario presented, it is feasible that the fixed channel arc would be able to make a shot that a more traditional arc could not, but what about the other ships in the squad? I find it highly unlikely that in a such a situation, lining up multiple fixed channels would be easier than lining up multiple 270 or 360 arcs.

In fact, the opposite is true more often than not. The inevitable conclusion of the fixed fore channel is that your ships MUST be facing directly towards the target, and have a comparatively limited choice of targets because of this. You can't kite targets, you can't move one way and shoot another. If you want to shoot at something, you will have to move in such a way that you're pointed directly at it, and thusly moving towards it as well...not something a long range unit like the Arashi should want. On top of that, the Arashi (a medium ship firing tertiary weapons on a fixed channel) is awfully easy to screen against. As a standalone squad that's bad enough, but when used as an attachment the problems become that much more noticeable.

 

For the price being asked (80 points for an attachment, 240 for a squad), you can get units that do a similar job (more reliably) for much cheaper, or take units that aren't so narrow in their focus, but most importantly units that don't have to jump through so many hoops to shoot at something in a given activation.

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It's very easy to line up 3 shots, with 3 straight lines each bisecting the others through the same gap. Whilst you do have to move directly towards your target, you only need move 2" - EoBS works much better than KoB here because Sharp Turn + Fixed Channels is amazeballs! Not meaning to brag, but I've rarely found it difficult to thread my rockets towards their target.

Conversely, if you are partially blocked with 1 ship, chances are you will be partially blocked with the others in the squadron. Your opponent's best bet is to block your line of sight with an advance moving force to try and cover those holes (because the closer they are, the wider the angle of the board they can block), but then those ships become easier targets for boarding...

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but then those ships become easier targets for boarding...

 

By the same token, so to do the Arashi. Though they also have the added downside of having absolutely no ability to fight in RB1.

Also, I feel we're taking the thread a bit off topic. If you'd like to discuss the ship more, I wouldn't mind speaking about it over PM. I just can't see the benefits of the ship outweighing the downsides, but most other folks seem to enjoy the ship quite a lot.

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My only problem with the arashi has been my friends rolling too damn many 6's on their defenses.  I'm glad shields became a heavy d6 rather than an exploding d6 for anti-rocket.  I miss them only working on a 5 or 6, though.

 

It seems folks like the Kaiju, and I think I agree.  It's the node projector that I think seals the deal for me, as I don't like the Raijin very much and want to take my Honshus as Mk IIs when I take them.

 

Seems like with the advice from this board, I'm looking at good news in that the dreadnought, the pride and joy of my fleet, is usable this edition.  I'm looking at dread, tenkei, kaiju and an ika as standard in my lists, which means I'm quite large-heavy.  Three squadrons of Uwatsus, a squadron of tanukis and something else medium and it seems like I'm solid!

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My only problem with the arashi has been my friends rolling too damn many 6's on their defenses. I'm glad shields became a heavy d6 rather than an exploding d6 for anti-rocket. I miss them only working on a 5 or 6, though.

It seems folks like the Kaiju, and I think I agree. It's the node projector that I think seals the deal for me, as I don't like the Raijin very much and want to take my Honshus as Mk IIs when I take them.

Seems like with the advice from this board, I'm looking at good news in that the dreadnought, the pride and joy of my fleet, is usable this edition. I'm looking at dread, tenkei, kaiju and an ika as standard in my lists, which means I'm quite large-heavy. Three squadrons of Uwatsus, a squadron of tanukis and something else medium and it seems like I'm solid!

try using multiple barrages out of your Arashi at a single target model (either 3 salvos of 2 batteries, or 2 salvos of 3 batteries). It doesn't matter how many 6s get rolled then, because you can only use defensive AA once per squadron

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I love Devastating Barrage on 21 dice as the first real shot of the game...not least because it normally requires your opponent to choose between using a high value card right from the get-go, or risk the insane number of 6's I normally roll ;)

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I love Devastating Barrage on 21 dice as the first real shot of the game...not least because it normally requires your opponent to choose between using a high value card right from the get-go, or risk the insane number of 6's I normally roll ;)

I thought that card only worked on gunnery, I'll have to re read it.

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I think it's any one attack that is declared. Mind you, I don't have a copy directly to hand, so I could be mistaken!

I don't either...but that could have some really cool uses that I hadn't noticed if it is able to be played on rockets and whatnot... Torpedoes, heat lances...so many choices.

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