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So we've got a tactics versus CF thread, but how about a thread for help versus other nations or in general?

 

Played another game versus Prussia last night. Game ended and he'd lost a corvette and an escort, I'd lost my BB, my assault carrier and 2 cruisers.

 

He had a lot of Tesla this time around (donnerfausts, sturmbringer, imperium, elbe, saxony, arminius - the only thing not firing lightning was Karl.). I had Karl, the Elbe and the Imperium bearing down on me while the sturmbringer and donnerfausts lurked about at the back hurling lightning spears. 

 

My issues were these;

 

Donnerfaust and Sturmbringer long range fire power is huge. In an exchange, donnerfausts only have one less AD than Fresnel at RB3 and then go up from there. They're about the same toughness. Any damage incurred hurts me far worse than it hurts him - it reduces my return fire AND weakens my turn 3-4 defence against him. Spears ignore wave lurker, so it's not hard for the donnerfausts or sturm to link and whack a spear on something even if its lurking, opening it up for obliteration by the rest of the fleet. Imagine if Energy turrets left a marker on a target which gave energy weapons devastating ordnance - that's what this is like.

 

Prussian larges are as tough if not tougher than CoA larges. Karl, taking into account rugged construction and his two shields, is effectively 9.2/14.2. (I think rugged construction could probably be almost 1.5 effective dr/cr each - those removed dice may have been sixes). The obscured Imperium seems just as tough. 

 

Close to equivalent firepower - eg the Elbe vs the Diophantus. The Diophantus only has an advantage when its pristine - once its taken two points of damage the Elbe out guns it. 

 

How would you deal with a tesla heavy prussian fleet? The only thing I'm thinking could work is forming a gunline and hoping for the best. I asked my opponent what he would do, and wasn't sure what CoA could take to counter it.

 

It's not my intent for this to be whiney, either - these are just my observations from last night, and rather than packing it in I'd prefer to see what I can do to challenge it.

 

 

(also, the zeno is great, but too damn big.)

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I have had a lot of success using dilation fields.

 

In a 1500 Points game I fielded the Prometheus with a dilation field generator as well as the Ol' tilme Orb.

 

The two fields allowed me to block off parts of my fleet from the enemy firing line at will.

 

 

I think the gunline strategy does not work very well against prussians, as they are just so damn fast.

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I have a basic made list that works good for 85% (Iam still making adjustments to make it a good list vs everything (Even Invaders ;) )

*Diophantus Assault Carrier 200

*Aristotle Battleship+Target Painter 210

*Zeno Armoured Cruisers 3x 270

*Cleomedes Cruisers+E-Turrets 3x 240

*Plutarch Heavy Destroyers 3x 135

*Callimachus-Alpha Orb 90

*Ptomely Mine-Layers 2x 120

MVF=1265

Tactics:

Keep the Alpha Orb and Zenos behind a piece of terrain and deploy them full 8". Also if possible deploy the Orb on an way that it has LoS over the piece of terrain (this is indeed difficult but will give you an advantage). Use this set up to Teleport the Zenos in the flank or behind enemy lines in turn 1 or 2 so that they can do massive damage against smalls and mediums and to place mines if needed.

Deploy the Cleomedes in clear view and use them as snipers with the Torpedoes and E Turrets. If enemies come to close, go Wave Lurk, use torpedoes, (weakend) E-Turrets and broadsides and when possible board vessels. Or in an emergancy/tactical advantage Teleport them also behind the enemy.

I use the Plutarch to be Teleported with the zenos or send them to mediums/large to weaken/destroy them.

Use the Aristotle to paint targets and blow them away with your primary Turrets. I always deploy them in Wave Lurk to gain movement and an additional defence and shoot with 2 half AD Turrets and 2 full AD Turrets and when up close emerge and blow the structure out of the ship with Turrets, broadsides and when having the option use the PA to massive damage to many vessels in reach.

The Ptolemy's advance deploy in obscured and move as fast as possible to an inportant target and drop (linked)mines in front of them and try to go stratospheric. (Because (linked) High Payload Mines do massive damage to any vessel within the blast).

The Diophantus is used for Re-launching Drones (any kind that is desired) and to give a (final) punsh to vessels with its PA or Broadsides. Also it can place mines in its rear or possible flank to defend against flanking smalls/mediums. I always deploy the model in Wave Lurk and let him do passive Re-Launching and "Snipe" targets with its PA.

Also besides the primary use/objective of the vessels (explained above) they all have the secondary objective to damage/weaken any enemy vessel (when of course they cannot preform their prime objective or if the secondary objective is more important on that moment)

This is my standard 1250 WIP list. It is a fleet on the moment that must work toghter with tactics. Feel free to comment, give tips or edit the list to your way.

-Lorenzo

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I have a basic made list that works good for 85% (Iam still making adjustments to make it a good list vs everything (Even Invaders ;) )

*Diophantus Assault Carrier 200

*Aristotle Battleship+Target Painter 210

*Zeno Armoured Cruisers 3x 270

*Cleomedes Cruisers+E-Turrets 3x 240

*Plutarch Heavy Destroyers 3x 135

*Callimachus-Alpha Orb 90

*Ptomely Mine-Layers 2x 120

MVF=1265

Tactics:

Keep the Alpha Orb and Zenos behind a piece of terrain and deploy them full 8". Also if possible deploy the Orb on an way that it has LoS over the piece of terrain (this is indeed difficult but will give you an advantage). Use this set up to Teleport the Zenos in the flank or behind enemy lines in turn 1 or 2 so that they can do massive damage against smalls and mediums and to place mines if needed.

Deploy the Cleomedes in clear view and use them as snipers with the Torpedoes and E Turrets. If enemies come to close, go Wave Lurk, use torpedoes, (weakend) E-Turrets and broadsides and when possible board vessels. Or in an emergancy/tactical advantage Teleport them also behind the enemy.

I use the Plutarch to be Teleported with the zenos or send them to mediums/large to weaken/destroy them.

Use the Aristotle to paint targets and blow them away with your primary Turrets. I always deploy them in Wave Lurk to gain movement and an additional defence and shoot with 2 half AD Turrets and 2 full AD Turrets and when up close emerge and blow the structure out of the ship with Turrets, broadsides and when having the option use the PA to massive damage to many vessels in reach.

The Ptolemy's advance deploy in obscured and move as fast as possible to an inportant target and drop (linked)mines in front of them and try to go stratospheric. (Because (linked) High Payload Mines do massive damage to any vessel within the blast).

The Diophantus is used for Re-launching Drones (any kind that is desired) and to give a (final) punsh to vessels with its PA or Broadsides. Also it can place mines in its rear or possible flank to defend against flanking smalls/mediums. I always deploy the model in Wave Lurk and let him do passive Re-Launching and "Snipe" targets with its PA.

This is my standard 1250 WIP list. It is a fleet on the moment that must work toghter with tactics. Feel free to comment, give tips or edit the list to your way.

-Lorenzo

I am fairly sure that the lower weapons can't fire at all when you are lurking unless they are torpedoes or particle accelerators?

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I have a basic made list that works good for 85% (Iam still making adjustments to make it a good list vs everything (Even Invaders ;) )

*Diophantus Assault Carrier 200

*Aristotle Battleship+Target Painter 210

*Zeno Armoured Cruisers 3x 270

*Cleomedes Cruisers+E-Turrets 3x 240

*Plutarch Heavy Destroyers 3x 135

*Callimachus-Alpha Orb 90

*Ptomely Mine-Layers 2x 120

MVF=1265

 

This list is increadibly vulnerable to a "destroy 50% + all smalls" order.

 

Cheers,

 

Falconer

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Yes that is true and iam working on that "issue" but i have to first see what can leave out my list. But i have never suffered a loss with this Fleet when the opponent had that order. Still i can always lose so still working on it. But thanks for noticing :D

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I think I would field the following 1250 list for a similar theme:

 

Diophantus Assault Carrier 200
Aristotle Battleship (No Target Painter) 200

 Galen escort 25

Fresnel Gunship 2x 180
Hippasus BattleCruiser (eTurrets) 130
Ptomely Mine-Layers 3x 180

Plutarch Heavy Destroyers 3x 135

Diogenes Frigates 4x 100

Thales Corvettes 5x 100

---------------------------------------

Total: 1250 pts

 

The Hippasus can teleport your smalls all over the place and they (unlike the Zenos) have movement to burn if the they end up on the wrong side of the target portal.

 

I spent the 10 pts from the Aristotle Target Painter on the Hippasus eTurrets. If you want to use the Target Painter, you can't use the Aristotle's PA. That why I think the TP gen isn't as usefull as you'd like.

 

This list now has 3 mine layers (they are very good).
 

The list also has 2 large's, 3 medium squadrons and 3 small squadrons. Therefore it is quite hard to target this list with a 50% order since there are plenty of all types to go around.

 

There are also downsides of course. The lack of an alpha orb means that you can't use a dilation field which protects your fleet. The Thales corvettes are good boarders, but not as good as the Zenos.

 

Anyway, good luck with your list.

 

Cheers,

 

Falconer

 

Edit: You could swap the Ptolemys in my list for 3 platos with eTurrets and spend 10 pts on the Aristotle's TP gen for a total of 1245 pts.

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How about this list against Prussia? It' a "game of drones & teleport" list

 

>>>>>

Size of Game 1500, Naval Core

  • Pericles Energy Turrets 165
  • Epicurus 170
  • Callimachus Alpha 90
  • Ptolemy Flyer x 2   120
  • Fresnel x 3   270
  • Zeno x 3   270
  • Plutarch x 3     135
  • Diogenes x 4     100
  • Diogenes x 4     100
  • Galen Escort x 3     75

 

Large & Massive 425, Medium 660, Small 410, Core 1115, Non-Core 380

 

<<<<<

 

The Plan is to stay back and snipe with Fresnels and Diogenes Torps, to gain air superiority (14 + 10 Drones!) and then torp and dive bomb the shyt out of Prussia while some Zenos and Plutarchs sneak in from a worm hole in the backyard. The Epicurus goes aggressive (thus no e-turrets - still will be an attention catcher ...) and the Ptolemys either lay mines in front of a clumsy BS or DN or drop bomb onto some mediums or smalls. The Galen try to protect the Pericles.

 

We play without TAC (no decks yet) and usually do not do a lot of boarding stuff.

 

As an alternative i considered 5 Ptolemys (2 + 3) and reducing the Galen and Fresnels or Zenos to 2

 

NC

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How about this list against Prussia? It' a "game of drones & teleport" list

 

>>>>>

Size of Game 1500, Naval Core

  • Pericles Energy Turrets 165
  • Epicurus 170
  • Callimachus Alpha 90
  • Ptolemy Flyer x 2   120
  • Fresnel x 3   270
  • Zeno x 3   270
  • Plutarch x 3     135
  • Diogenes x 4     100
  • Diogenes x 4     100
  • Galen Escort x 3     75

 

Large & Massive 425, Medium 660, Small 410, Core 1115, Non-Core 380

 

<<<<<

 

The Plan is to stay back and snipe with Fresnels and Diogenes Torps, to gain air superiority (14 + 10 Drones!) and then torp and dive bomb the shyt out of Prussia while some Zenos and Plutarchs sneak in from a worm hole in the backyard. The Epicurus goes aggressive (thus no e-turrets - still will be an attention catcher ...) and the Ptolemys either lay mines in front of a clumsy BS or DN or drop bomb onto some mediums or smalls. The Galen try to protect the Pericles.

 

We play without TAC (no decks yet) and usually do not do a lot of boarding stuff.

 

As an alternative i considered 5 Ptolemys (2 + 3) and reducing the Galen and Fresnels or Zenos to 2

 

NC

I feel as if this lacks a propper line holding battleship to keep them from ripping up your drones.

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Also, Fresnels max unit size is now 2, not 3.

So with the 90 points you save by dropping 1 fresnel, plus maybe dropping the 1 unit of Diogenes and 1 galen, you can have enough points for something solid like the Aristotle. Will make the fleet very very top heavy though...

If you are going full game of drones (incidently, doing so makes for a very odd game.) then a Euclid and a Diophantus seem to be missing :P Similarly I might be tempted to roll the orb as a battle orb and use a Hippasus for teleporting, Zenos are rather good but you don't want their crew to br fried by a bad roll on the teleportal.

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I guess there will be not much SAW on the other side and with about 12 - 15 activations you can do some tactics.  I still could reduce Zeno and Fresnel and Galen to 2 and add an Aristotle.

 

NC

 

edit: 2 + 1 Fresnel makes two units and I don't own any of the new ships and no Disc of doom

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Hmm... a single Fresnel is a nice 10 dice shot at something, but seems remarkably vulnerable to torps or rockets or frigate/corvette boarding. Fresnels are awesome though... I may try having squads of 1 of them sometime.

Considering the fleet, I would try and load the Epi with e-turrets and play the ranged game with everything, waiting to portal behind an advancing enemy.  Ptolemys in advance deployment work nicely, flying Stratospheric for defence and dropping down to mine off key pathways to direct the enemy into your firing lines. Zenos could shield themselves behind the orb or other massive ships to prevent them being targetted early, then either charged forward normally to strike or sent through portals... I just don't like the idea of portaling the mediums very much, they don't have much movement and bad rolls can rob them of AP or the ability to do stuff.

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I guess there will be not much SAW on the other side and with about 12 - 15 activations you can do some tactics.  I still could reduce Zeno and Fresnel and Galen to 2 and add an Aristotle.

 

NC

 

edit: 2 + 1 Fresnel makes two units and I don't own any of the new ships and no Disc of doom

The addition of a battle ship will provide you a tough vessel to put between your vulnerable carrier ships and the enemy.

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Well, then:

 

  • Aristotle Energy Turrets 200
  • Pericles Energy Turrets 165
  • Epicurus Energy Turrets 180
  • Callimachus Alpha 90
  • Ptolemy Flyer x 2   120
  • Fresnel x 2   180
  • Zeno x 2   180
  • Plutarch x 3     135
  • Diogenes x 4     100
  • Diogenes x 4     100
  • Galen Escort x 2     50

 

Large & Massive 635, Medium 480, Small 385, Core 1110, Non-Core 390

 

This exactly fits to 1500 points. I guess someone needs 1 or 3 more Fresnel real soon ...  :D

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Hmm... a single Fresnel is a nice 10 dice shot at something, but seems remarkably vulnerable to torps or rockets or frigate/corvette boarding. Fresnels are awesome though... I may try having squads of 1 of them sometime.

 

Consider the following: You earn more activations if you deploy them in single squads, no trouble with disorder tests and losing entire squads and your opponent has to manage the gdmnd target overload ... and by the way: they still hit quite hard ...

 

NC

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Why not a Diophantus if you want more SAW instead of the Aristotle.  It still hits damn hard, and it's actually tougher (6/11/10 hp) than the Aristotle (6/10/8 hp).  Both are 200 points also.

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Why not a Diophantus if you want more SAW instead of the Aristotle.  It still hits damn hard, and it's actually tougher (6/11/10 hp) than the Aristotle (6/10/8 hp).  Both are 200 points also.

 

 

 I don't own any of the new ships and no Disc of doom

 

Well, there is a reason for that.  ;)  August will see a bigger order at SG and then I might be able to play a Diophantus.

 

NC

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In relation to ProjectManhatten's earlier comment about a fleet list that's good against everything....

 

I noticed you said you wanted it to be good against Invaders. How exactly would that work? Because it seems to me tha--

 

*twitch*

 

FOOLISH HUMAN. NO FLEET THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY DRUM UP WOULD HAVE ANY HOPE AGAINST OUR SUPERIOR MILITARY AND INTELLECTUAL PROWESS. NOT EVEN YOUR COVENANT CAN MATCH THE AWE-INSPIRING POWER OF OUR WEAPONRY. SOON, YOU SHALL ALL FALL BEFORE OUR--

 

*twitch*

 

t the invaders could easily wipe the floor with basically any fleet we could use. I'm not saying that it's impossible, I just want to know in what way you think this fleet would be good against them.

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My buddy beat the Invaders in a straight up fight with the FSA....

 

I would use lots of PA's agaisnt the Invaders, Indescriminate Attacks are a heckuva way to deal with all kinds of fancy mars and shields and things.  so if you can work in some area bombardment that will do as well.

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