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Reading through this thread again it seems that most people playing the Tribals are disappointed. They are just not pulling their weight. So while it looks impressive on paper, in actual gameplay they underperform. That to me is an indicator that they are overprized at 80 points.

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I tried them with piercing the other day vs coa, it didn't make much difference, cc and shields stopped everything that was not a crit torpedo wise. After learning the coa torps have 90o fire arcs and faster torpedoes, that's just so much better. I would take less dice for 90o or even broadside arcs on broadside torps. Whatever happens the cost needs to come down:)

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Techno hugging loon, hah! Say that again you torpedo loving waterhog! :P

Erm, oh wait, I am meant to be wearing my KoB disguise in this section. *ahem*

*hastily conceals labcoat and dons mustache and monocle.*

Tally ho pip pip and Bernard's your uncle!

I had a game the other day against the EIMC. Now there is an interesting blueprint for how a cruiser should be.

For those who have not met the beast that is the Griffon class cruiser, let me introduce this Old school Tribal on steriods.

It has sharp turn

It has CR 7

It has 2 turrets AND a generator.

It costs 70 points.

Now here is the fun thing, it comes stock with 2 torpedo turrets (7/6/5/4 spread) and a Tesla gen.

But for the low low price of 10 points you can swap out these torp turrets for good old fashioned Heavy Turrets! (8/7/4 spread)

Oh, and it has sustained fire 2 on both versions of turret.

"But Mr Thamoz," I hear you say, "Wouldn't the heavy turret version suffer a lot of AD degradation from damage?"

Well yes my good friend/values customer, but the EIMC have thought of that! We have a special offer! How about we bump that tesla gen up into a shield gen? (for only ninety nine, ninety nine, ninety niiiiiiiiiiiine.... ok for only 10 points) That make you feel safer?

So, there you have it, a blueprint for what a 2 turret tribal could have been like. Ok, I know it doesnt follow the KoB turret spread or have fixed torps from odd orifices, but it does have +1 CR and sharp turn and sustained fire. I am sure there is room to leverage those advantages into a few more AD per turret. Or maybe not.

Now, stepping away from the advert here, I am not saying we need the Tribal to be built like the Griffon. I am just admiring the options and versatility that the Griffon has through its various upgrades. Yes, fully upgraded it costs 90 points, but it gives you a bit more flexibility in fleet building. You can go with cheap torp turrets and no shield, safe in the knowledge that damage won't decrease their usefulness. Or you can go heavy turret and shield, hoping the shield and increased CR will let you get to RB 2 where 6 turrets open up on some hapless enemy.

I like it! It was a real horror to play against (increased CR vessels with shields are just mean! :P) and in turn 2 began splattering my Aristotle into tiny little inventive chunks. If we had had time for another turn then they would have probably blown it to pieces (yes, there was a bit of other fire going at the battleship, but the Griffons were doing the heavy lifting). My own fault for not recognising the danger (Danger!) posed by them at first and not bothering too much about them until too late.

So, if we can take some pointers from the Griffon and apply them to the Tribal...

LLets have more options to upgrade! Tell you what would make the Tribal worth 80 points easily. Shield (3)! Play up the already tough we're-going-to-be-here-all-day feel of the ships with added shield sauce! 70 points base for what it is now (maybe 75) +10 points to upgrade the shield. Or for more of a KoB feel, just make the upgrade for a guardian.

Upgrade idea for crew if good of course, 5 pts for stoic. I wonder how many for Aggressive? That shield gen, could it not have an option to be a kinetic? Or (oh please please please) a Fury gen? Give it more options and more flexibility so that it can be built into whatever role the KoB player wants for it! Lets make it as versatile as only a scrapheap challenge team could! What say you?!

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Torpedo loving warthog, ha! you knave of a coa loving spy in a bad disguise!

 

I like the idea of the griffon, but anything over 80 is where I draw the line at cruiser points:P, like I was going to try the raj devaks out the other day, but I actually think the tribal is better, and I cant believe im saying that so I must be crazy. I found 3 of the canda monitors way way better, 6 activations or one was the clincher for a handful of points more, but that's really something for another thread :P

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Waterhog, Presidente, waterhog. ;-)

If the Tribal gets Piercing, I will consider taking a squadron in my lists. As of now, I have the Agincourts and the Vanguards.

A squadron of Agincourts and a squadron of Vanguards cost 450 points, less than two squadrons of Tribals, with the same number of models and much better performance and flexibility. And three chainsaws...

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Had a test game of KoB vs KoD last Friday. You can find the BatRep here.

 

This was the Conclusion:

We looked at the game and decided that the British commander had made the biggest mistake by bunching up his subs. Those Korsors should not have been able to wipe out that flank so easily. Also: using Korsors as suicide bombers is a sure fire way to hand your opponent a victory is he is sporting the 50% + smalls order, so not advisable. On the other flank the Korsors took out the unit destroyers, but they had already mauled the Danish destroyers and had been worth their points.

The aim of the test was to see if the MkI Skagerrak was worth its points, and I really must say that it isn't. The Sigurd is 60 pts with a MkI being 80 points. The only difference between the 2 models is:
- The Skagerrak MkI has 1AP *less*
- The Skagerrak MkI has a Calcification generator
- The Skagerrak MkI has 1 higher IR.

- The Skagerrak MkI has broadsides (mainly RB1 and 2)

- The Skagerrak MkI has 1 higher AA

IMHO, these differences do not justify an extra 20 points. IMO the Skagerrak MkI should be about 70-75 pts with the MkII price being about what it is now.

 

I was also impressed with the Tribal. These things have really good AD output despite 1 of them having had 4HP damage. A huge difference with the Danish ships which already suffer with just 1HP damage. I still think the Tribal suffers from the fact that the Agincourt basically has the same role within the ORBAT, but does that better. Perhaps the Tribal is a tiny bit on the expensive side, but in comparison to the Skagerrak MkI (also 80 pts), it's fantastic.

 

I think it's good to see the Tribal perform when faced with other mediums.

 

Cheers,

 

Edited: Added the broadsides and AA to the differences which I had forgotten

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Wow I'm seeing some love on this topic.

The tribal one fine ship

And the agincourt another fine ship

Personally I would change neither of them.

But

I like the dark Jedi ideas of the upgrade option torps

Hat in ring.

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I keep using them, but they never do anything for me, doesn't matter if they're in the middle or on the flank, they just get eaten. The most they've ever really done for me is take out three of four Lyon frigates in one turn.

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First time I used the Tribals they gave the RoF a round pounding.  We'll see, they do seem a good cruiser build, so far.  They're no Canda, but I'll keep using them till I find them unusable.

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I was on the receiving end of what Geddon refered to as "liking it". Seeing 8 of the improved British cruisers (2x3 Tribals with Dominions) steaming full speed towards the heart of my fleet really was a good challenge. I made that challenge somewhat worse when I shot down an obscured Illustrious instead of taking out the Tribals asap. And even as the Tribals did an impressive show of how to fail a diceroll, they did a good job and would have had a decent chance to capture one of my BBs.

 

Honestly I don't think they are broken, but now they are a really good medium choice which can really dish out a lot of pain even when hurt. Indeed a very good game.

 

R

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The last couple of games I played Tribals they've been the ship of the game. 

 

First game they sunk an EotBS battle cruiser on their second activation - all the torps and guns at that guy! - then they swung round and started harassing their battleships and squid-thing, hate that thing.

 

The second game my Tribals went toe-to-toe with three EIMC cruisers and won. I think my Tribals were the only thing on the board at the end... on my side, the EIMC had a few things left to come at me. Meh, what to I care? The papers will report it as a KoB technical victory.

 

I like the point decrease of the Tribal, and the extra HP helps. Plus, it's okay, 'cos we've got shields. [Double 1] Damn it.

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I always liked the tribal before the changes and tried to field a squadron at all times. The new changed reinforce that decision for me. Honestly surprised, albeit excited, that we got a bonus to DR while lowering points. (I was hoping for a points drop only)

I agree with shadowbow. The moves to differentiate the cruisers was well done.

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