[2.0] Torpedoes - are they worth it?

[Geddon]

While diving nothing blocks LOS.

 

EDIT:

 

What I mean by this is that while diving no surface vessels block line of sight. This is the only way you can fire past your own ships in the current rules.

 

That's wrong

Page 121(Comodor Edition) third bulletpoint

-When Torpedo Ordonance from any Height Level targets a Model occupying the Surface Height Level, any intervening Models on the Surface Height Level are always Obstructing Models for determining Line of Sight, regardless of their Size.

[shad0wb0w]

That's wrong

Page 121(Comodor Edition) third bulletpoint

-When Torpedo Ordonance from any Height Level targets a Model occupying the Surface Height Level, any intervening Models on the Surface Height Level are always Obstructing Models for determining Line of Sight, regardless of their Size.

Urp?

Well so much for reciprocal line of sight if that's the way it's worded exactly.

[Watchdog]

That's wrong

Page 121(Comodor Edition) third bulletpoint

-When Torpedo Ordonance from any Height Level targets a Model occupying the Surface Height Level, any intervening Models on the Surface Height Level are always Obstructing Models for determining Line of Sight, regardless of their Size.

 

That is how I understood it originally.

 

It actually makes sense, though.

[shad0wb0w]

That is how I understood it originally.

 

It actually makes sense, though.

Ish...the issue with that wording is that it means a surface vessel can fire at a sub under other vessels but the sub can't fire back.

[Presidente]

They should probably hit on 4s from submerged brit subs, thought we were the pinnacle of sub tech, the mediums don't even have the bulkhead mar or aquatic assault. Just does not make sense to me.

[shad0wb0w]

They should probably hit on 4s from submerged brit subs, thought we were the pinnacle of sub tech, the mediums don't even have the bulkhead mar or aquatic assault. Just does not make sense to me.

We're the only ones who can run a sub fleet and we ruin other subs from other fleets?

[Presidente]

You say that if running a whole sub fleet is a scary thing. It really would not be. I run mostly valiants vengeances and vanguards atm, using aa instead off cc on boarding makes it way harder, I don't understand that change, less crew but getting hit by cc was always an acceptable trade off, but now to board, you have to surface then go through aa......

[Watchdog]

One thing that bothers me is that to ram a surface vessel I have to surface with my Vengenace/Vanguard. Even the submerged model looks more like the ramming position to me.

 

Thing is that if a submarine surfaces it is as good as dead. The Vengeance is virtually impossible to submerge with the swift manoeuvre.

[Presidente]

In my experience since the vengeance lost a cr in 2.0 ( I don't know why) and with the removal of iron ram I find it suffers a crit while ramming similar sized units. Never mind the vanguards, ive had them ramming cruisers and sinking lol.

[McKinstry]

One thing that bothers me is that to ram a surface vessel I have to surface with my Vengenace/Vanguard. Even the submerged model looks more like the ramming position to me.

 

Thing is that if a submarine surfaces it is as good as dead. The Vengeance is virtually impossible to submerge with the swift manoeuvre.

There is a TAC Card that (I think I recall) lets you add +2 to a Swift Manouvre roll but that is a one trick pony.

[TImSteve]

While diving nothing blocks LOS.

 

EDIT:

 

What I mean by this is that while diving no surface vessels block line of sight. This is the only way you can fire past your own ships in the current rules.

Whether or not you can see under other ships (and I'm not sure you can- don't have time now but I think the book says you follow standard LoS rules while submerged) torpedoes certainly can't: even if fired by a large even small and tiny ships block their fire arcs.

[Watchdog]

There is a TAC Card that (I think I recall) lets you add +2 to a Swift Manouvre roll but that is a one trick pony.

 

Unless your opponent is a fool, this card will always get cancelled, since the 20 VP are more than worth the punishment the surfaced submarine receives in the next shooting phase.

[Veldrain]

Unless your opponent is a fool, this card will always get cancelled, since the 20 VP are more than worth the punishment the surfaced submarine receives in the next shooting phase.

If my Prussian opponent wants to use that on his Sturmbringer he is welcome.  I have enough torpedoes that sub is going to be in even more trouble down below.  Besides, when firing at a submerged target we ignore models on the surface so he can't hide below.

[McKinstry]

Unless your opponent is a fool, this card will always get cancelled, since the 20 VP are more than worth the punishment the surfaced submarine receives in the next shooting phase.

Since it is still diie roll dependent, nothing hurts like spending the points and blowing the die roll as it merely makes it a 50/50 proposition. This one goes through unchallenged in our games more than half the time since half the time it does nothing.

 

The other companion to this is Radio Intercept. Activating the sub at the end of a turn and then improving your chances to get initiative can let you get submerged before the other fellow can shoot although again, it merely improves odds with no guarantee of success.

 

Any of the cards that merely improve the chances on a roll may not be worth cancelling as you are giving up guaranteed points for simply a maybe chance. I've spent the 60 points to use Devastating Barrage and then blown the roll often enough that sometimes my opponents don't bother stopping it.

[Bunnahabhain]

There is a TAC Card that (I think I recall) lets you add +2 to a Swift Manouvre roll but that is a one trick pony. end to

Close. It changes the roll to a 2+, so rather better on the larges.  It is only a 20, so it does it get cancelled if it is going to matter.

 

Presidente- I suspect you need to re-read the Ram and Collision rules.  If you're ramming with a Vengence, you get the Crushing Impact MAR. The target you are ramming doesn't get it back, as it didn't declare a Ram. If you opponent can normally roll  enough to crit the Vengence from 7-8 dice without any MARs etc in play,  they either have a deity on their side, or loaded dice.

 

James

[Presidente]

Yeah yeah I know that:/ my point was it didn't need to loose that point of cr:P

[likeAsir]

It did, it was too hard!

 

The abundance of guardian generators gives it shield dice. essentially adding 0-2 (well potentially infinite!) to The CR. It could have had much much more but at a higher price tag.

As it is, the Vengeance is perfect for its points. If your opponent is critting it then he is putting lots of firepower down, firepower that isnt going towards squishy Orions or mighty Rulers. 

 

The Vengeance isnt affected by damage at all (Tertiary weapons and the fact that even on 1hp it is a giant-freaking-chainsaw!) and many of the crits do sweet F-A to it (Sturgnium flare on turn one can actually be a boon!). The fact that the Vengeance has reinforced bulkheads has made at least one of my opponents swear. 

 

As a side. the Indian Raj are gong to make our subs beyond obscene, time flow generator for additional movement... Yes! 

 

ANYHOO back to topic.

 

Torps great, Brit Torps are amazing. They sink ships, cause crits and make grown men cry. 

 

rool breeeetanneah 

 

LAS

[Redmick]

Can we just conclude and say Torps are great?

We can use them late game to full effect, most opposing ships have lower CC versus their superior AA against Rockets. Fair enough, we cannot use them against land or air targets, but they make KoB naval very powerful on the waves, along with Redoubtable and Shield Generators. We all know having Torps that could plough through land, or bypass intervening vessels would likely unbalance things further. I think we can be rightly feared for the profusion of firing options on our ships, and the ability to use Torps late game no matter how damaged our ships are.

Hurrah for Britannia!