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OctopusPrime

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  1. OctopusPrime

    3.0 Mega Question Thread

    Some FTL involves wormholes, folding space, or warp bubbles which in theory would not need Inertial dampening. This is why I'm curious for Firestorm, because some factions could be faster not necessarily because they can make faster ships, but because their ships can accelerate faster without turning their crews into a paste. on the bulkheads For instance, in The Expanse human space travel within system is limited by the Gravities exerted on the crews, but they can travel FTL using worm holes almost instantaneously. Same in Robotech/Macross from what I remember. Capital Ships can "fold space" or jump across the galaxy, but treking across the solar system takes months.
  2. OctopusPrime

    Stuart chats on The Hub Systems Podcast

    I'm hoping warcradle casting tech can reduce or eliminate the air bubbles that I consistently have had to deal with from Spartan casts. It got better from task force on, but still needed improvement.
  3. OctopusPrime

    3.0 Mega Question Thread

    WarCradle team, I had hoped to get some of these questions in Alex's PodCast but I was a day too late. Anyway, here is a long list of questions I have regarding the future of Firestorm and the direction the Fa 3.0 Beta was heading. I don't expect you to answer any of these. However, as the development of WC FA 3.0 starts to take shape, I'm hoping that you might stop by and address a few of them in 2018. I also hope other community members post their questions, concerns, and thoughts here to give you better insight into what some community members are interested in and what they think. Thanks, Aaron General Mechanics Stats still staying the same, or any simplification (AP & CP combined or DR & CR combined) or expansion (MARs made stats) Will MARS remain and if so how many will be left? Will Command Distance remain? Will there only be one game system? i.e. no armada AND task force Will the battle tracker stay? Will the System Wars tie in with Planetfall change significantly? TAC cards sticking around or moving to a command point system like the 3.0 beta or 40K 8th ed? Shunt deployment still in? Targeted strikes still in? SRS Will SRS stay as is where they act independently but most remain within command distance of ship? Will SRS go back to independent elements that roam where they want? Will SRS need to be assigned/attached to enemy ship within range for attack or be attached/assigned to friendly ship within range for PD defense? Will Fighters/Interceptors be able to escort/defend other Fighters and bombers attacking enemy ships from enemy fighter PD? How many types of SRS? Will certain carriers only carry specific SRS as in the beta? Weapons Will direct and indirect weapon types remain? Will there still be 4 weapon range bands Will the beta primary, secondary, and tertiary weapon types from the BETA remain? How will mines work? How will linking fire work? Cyber Warfare still in? Dice Still a D6 game? Will the dice mechanics change from buckets of dice to smaller numbers of dice? Still exploding 6s? Movement How will movement work, still like wet navy movement? If movement stays relatively the same will there be a better/smaller movement template? Will turning become 45 degree turns like halo? Will movement use turn templates like Xwing? Defenses PD stay the same? Shields still roll for effect, or flat modifier? Will smaller ships remain harder to hit? Will certain movement or maneuvers increase the difficulty to be hit? Boarding Will boarding assaults (ship based and SRS based) still be an option? Will boarders only inflict critical damage effects? Will boarders be able to cause hull point loss? can boarders capture a ship? Damage One critical damage table or multiples for different types of attacks? How many damage statuses? Will crew loss still affect weapon degradation? Will hull loss still affect weapon degradation? How will weapon degradation affect linking fire? Ship classes Do you plan on adding to the classes of ships as was suggested in the kickstarter: Escort, Light Frigate, Frigate, Corvette, Drone, Cruiser, Light Cruiser, Shield Cruiser, Destroyer, Gunship, Escort Cruiser, Torpedo Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, Assault Cruiser, R&D Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Carrier, Battle Carrier, Heavy Carrier, Battleship, Dreadnought? Do you plan on dropping any of the existing ship classes? Do you plan on introducing Leviathans? Models Will the models continue to move forward with magnetization in mind? Will the models continue to move forward with modularity in mind? Will there be new SRS stands with multiple 3D SRS on them? Will SRS get unique sculpts for each type Will some models be done in plastic? Factions how many factions major factions do you envision? How many minor factions attached to the main factions? Will their be a major faction consisting of only minor factions? Will the Saurians from the KS be added to the game? Will the original Pathogen aesthetic remain, or will the Pathogen transform into all organic looking ships from the KS? Are all the existing major factions going to break up with some minor factions joining them while others go away? Which minor factions are going away will the RSN merge into the Dindrenzi? will the terquai merge into the terrans or aquans? will omnidyne and works raptor merge into the directorate? will hawker merge into terrans? will Veydreth merge into Sorylians? will Ba'Kash merge into Relthoza? will Syndicate and STL merge into terrans? will Ryushi, Xelocians, and Tarakians merge into new a major faction? will some combination of Illosians, Kedorians, Corsairs, and Oroshan merge into a new major faction? Which factions do you feel lack purposeful and cohesive design besides aquans and directorate? Which faction's aesthetics are likely to change the most? Which factions do you feel have the most purposeful and cohesive design? Which factions aesthetic will change the least? Fluff Will the history/timeline change significantly? Will the original history/timeline remain intact and v3 advance the timeline into the future? Will the Kurak Alliance be retconned to not have formed? Will the Zenian League be retconned to not have formed? Will the minor races grudges still exist (ryushi vs. kedorians and terquai vs. illosians) How does shunting work? Is it hyperspace, warp, jump, wormhole tech? Do some of the races have different variations of FTL? Do the factions have inertial dampening tech so there ships can accelerate much faster than the 10 earth gravities humans would be limited to?
  4. OctopusPrime

    Your Firestorm Fleet Count

    Terran Valhalla Fleet Patrol Fleet Destroyer Group 3 Shield Cruiser Groups 2 Cruiser Groups 3 Frigate Groups 2 Task Force Reinforcement Groups Dreadnought Group 2 Carrier Groups 2 System Wars Groups Battlecruiser Group Space Station Group Dindrenzi Valhalla Fleet Patrol Fleet 2 Destroyer Groups 2 Gunship Groups 2 Cruiser Groups 3 Frigate and Corvette Groups 2 Task Force Reinforcement Groups Dreadnought Group 2 Carrier Groups 2 System Wars Groups 2 Battlecruiser Group Space Station Group Aquan 2 Return of the Overseers Fleet 2 Patrol Fleet 4 Destroyer Groups 2 Battle Carrier Groups 3 Frigate and Corvette Groups 2 Task Force Reinforcement Groups Dreadnought Group 2 Carrier Groups System Wars Groups Battlecruiser Group Relthoza 2 Patrol Fleets Destroyer Group Shunt Cruiser Group 2 Frigate and Corvette Groups 2 Task Force Reinforcement Groups 2 Dreadnought Group Cruiser Group Carrier Group System Wars Group Battlecruiser Group Directorate Return of the Overseers Fleet Patrol Fleet R&D Cruiser Group Dreadnought Group System Wars Groups Space Station Group Alliance of Kurak 2 Veydreth Patrol Fleets 2 Veydreth Gunship Groups 2 Veydreth Cruiser Groups 2 Xelocian Patrol Fleets 2 Xelocian Frigate Groups Xelocian Dreadnought Group 2 Ryushi Patrol Fleets Ryushi Battle Carrier Group 2 Terquai Patrol Fleets 2 Terquai Cruiser Groups 2 Terquai Dreadnoughts 2 Hawker Patrol Fleets 2 Hawker Carrier Groups Zenian League 2 RSN Patrol Fleets 2 RSN Destroyer and Frigate Groups 2 RSN Dreadnought Group 2 RSN Carriers 2 Bakash Patrol Fleets 2 Bakash Cruiser Groups Marauders 2 Omnidyne Patrol Fleets Omnidyne Dreadnought Group 2 Omnidyne Reinforcement Groups Omnidyne Support Group 2 Syndicate Patrol Fleets
  5. OctopusPrime

    Firestorm Armada 3.0 Designer Feedback Thread

    Replacement of TACs for Command Orders - Looking forward to this. I like the sound of 8 Factional Orders. Creation of Core Weapon Types - This sounds interesting, but also like it could be complicated or be too drastically different from the current system. I like the way that current primary weapons are affected by AD degradation and terrain, while secondary (torpedoes & cyber) weapons are not. Too keep this interaction it seems like additional rules will need to be added in addition to the proposed Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary in order to capture the same flavor. For instance would Primary torpedoes still ignore terrain. If the AD Degradation changes use the new power core stat, would primary torpedoes require 0 power? New Ship Classifications and Sizes - I'm fine with adding more classes, or defined prefixes for existing generic classes. However, in the fluff/background section of the rule book there should be a section describing what each class of ship is supposed to do. Sometimes it is unclear what each class of ship is supposed to do - depending on the era and/or the nation in the historical navy's, different chip classes performed different roles or were even drastically different sizes and "weight classes". New Crit Tables - I like the idea of 1 simplified table. However, it sounds like if you want to perform a targeted strike you don't get to influence what sub-system you want to target. It would be great if you could still have a higher probability of hitting the system you want to target, but still use 1 table. Removal of the AD-Degradation System – Not a fan of 2 or 4. I'm really interested in 3, as long it's quicker and easier than the current AD-Reduction method. No change Success-Removal AFTER dice rolls Power System Full-AD Reduction Removal Short Range Spacecraft (SRS) – I agree SRS needs a change, though I'm not a fan of the proposed limiting certain SRS to specific ships or classes of ships. There are a lot of great ideas the SRS rebalance thread. I would look at some of the supported idea in there. I do like the concept of the Heavy Bomber and Heavy Interceptor tokens which I don't think are in that thread, as long as they don't slow the game down too much. Movement - If turning on the spot is used instead of a turning template, I would like to see the smallest fastest vessels (Corvettes, Escorts, and Light Frigates) have a 90 degree turn before moving the minimum distance. This would provide a little more variety in turning ability and help distinguish the really small ships from the larger Frigates and Destroyers. For example the entire range of movement options might look like below. Turn Limit 0" 90d turn Models might change their statistics to highlight the use of the 1" integer...meaning they must move 1" forwards before they make each turn Turn Limit 0" 45d turn Models might change their statistics to highlight the use of the 1" integer...meaning they must move 1" forwards before they make each turn Turn Limit 1" Models change their statistics to highlight the use of the 2" integer....meaning they must travel 2" forwards before they make each turn Turn Limit 2" Models change their statistics to highlight the use of the 3" integer....meaning they must travel 3" forwards before they make each turn....etc Turn Limit 3" Models change their statistics to highlight the use of the 3" integer....meaning they must travel 3" forwards before they make each turn....etc
  6. OctopusPrime

    Discussion Thread for the new Aquan Prime Stats

    Thanks for pointing that out. Was suppose to be CP, but I had already mentioned that.
  7. H'mm the new Terrain stats pdf brings me to the spartan blog. All the other PDFs for the main races seem to work.
  8. I know this is late, but I spent a lot of time play testing the new ships for all the races with 2 friends over the past 2 weeks and I still wanted to post the feedback. We got in 12 games (all at 800 points taking copious notes) with various race combinations of fleets containing the new ships vs. fleets containing only existing ships and fleets both containing the new ships. Unfortunately I came down very sick this past weekend and did not have time to polish and submit our feedback and summary battle reports by the 15th. I still haven't written up the battle summaries, but here were our thoughts and experiences. General Thoughts After playing a more than a few games I have found that almost all of the new ships are significantly easier to board than existing ships. The new ships are boarding liabilities, when even facing non-traditional boarding races like Terrans and Aquans. Even the traditional boarding race's new ships are boarding liabilities. For example, based on past precedence Tier 2s normally have at least 2-4 AP. I understand Light Cruisers are suppose to be between Cruisers and Frigates, but I feel they sacrifice too much for too high a points cost and too easily give up Tier 2 Battle Log - especially in the AP numbers. Besides the boarding issues experienced with the new ships, the Agile MAR seems to be over costed across the board on the new ships. Light Cruisers Light Cruisers are a hard sell because they are so fragile and cause you to take a Tier 2 Battle Log hit. I think these would see more play if they remained Tier 2s, but only gave up Tier 3 BL. Light Cruisers should also be consistent across the races like other Ship Classes and have 3 HP. There could be a +1 HP Hard Point or upgrade option for the tougher Races. Something else to watch out for is the Light Cruiser upgrades turning them into worse normal Cruisers, at which point you would just take a base normal Cruiser. Also, Light Cruisers for races that can take normal Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers in squadrons of 4, make their Light Cruiser squadrons of 3 even worse. If the Light Cruisers are worse (but cheaper) versions of normal Cruisers that are balanced around squadrons of 4, then the Light Cruiser Squadrons of 3 are even more gimped than normal and much easier to score the same amount of Battle Log points. It would also be interesting if Light Cruiser squadrons could take a Torpedo, Shield, R&D, Shunt, or normal Cruiser as a squadron upgrade. Escort Carriers I don't know what to think of the Escort Carriers, it feels like they need to be very finely balanced to provide and alternative or supplement to Carriers. I like how the Dindrenzi Escort Carrier is as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. I feel like all races Escort Carriers should be as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. In general I feel that Escort Carriers trade smaller wing capacity, firepower, and point per wing ratio for speed and smaller Battle Log hit. The escort Carriers are also more difficult to remove, as long as the Carrier doesn't have a Tier 2 accompaniment. Even though whole squadrons are harder to remove, Escort Carriers are significantly weakened once they lose one ship or their SRS are damaged. One thing I think all Escort Carriers need is an upgrade or hard point to increase their SRS capacity by 1. Also, Cruiser squadron upgrades should support both Heavy Cruisers and Escort Cruisers, instead of limiting you to one or the other. The new Cruiser squadrons that can only take Escort Carrier upgrades don't synergize well at all. Light Frigates Light Frigates all seem to have a hard time differentiating themselves from other Frigates and Corvettes for all races. The Aquan Light Frigate is at least unique with its DR and CR the same, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Besides being overshadowed by other Frigates and Corvettes, Light Frigates also seem overpriced for what you get. Given their overlap with existing Tier 3 ships, reducing their price to 10-15 pts may establish their niche. They could be like the Omnidyne Corvettes at 15 points with either fore or port/starboard weapons. Another option to make Light Frigates more unique would be to make Elusive Target and/or Agile either standard MARs or upgrade options for Light Frigates. Escort Carrier - Ascendency Why not as tough as Heavy Cruiser Why not 5 HP and DR/CR 5/7? - competing with Heavy Cruiser for fleet spot With only 2 PD, the +1 PD hardpoint seems mandatory, losing out on Deck Crews which is what you want to take At least has option for Deck Crews, unlike other Escort Carriers Torps compliment cloak well - but are so weak and no backup weapons - even weaker weapons than other Escort Weapons Shunting out if SRS get hit, without deck crews squadron becomes worthless once damaged or lose a ship Normal carrier is only 125, wouldn't take over normal carrier - esp in patrol fleet Takes up a Heavy Cruiser slot - Not worth taking over Heavy Cruiser when you only have 1 Heavy Cruiser slot - weak weapons, not as tough, loses teeth once one ship down or SRS is damaged Cruiser - Champion Why is this not a Light Cruiser with 3 HP and at least 10 pts cheaper Same as normal cruiser - 1 less crew and 3 less AP and gains a shield Boarding liability - only 2 CP and 1 AP Gravity Weapon FF - becomes more expensive than Abraxas Cruiser but at least different Without Gravity weapon hardpoint seemed like a more expensive and limited Abraxas Cruiser - Beam weapons same strength, but turrent on Abraxas much more flexible Gravity weapon seemed mandatory, otherwise the Champion Cruiser is worse than the existing Abraxas Cruiser Light Frigate - Impact Elusive Target nice on a Light Frigate Drone - no crew Scout for 5 pts Faster than normal Frigates Almost exactly like Works Raptor corvette Really liked the way the this played - wish more Light Frigates were closer to this Different enough from normal Frigate - didn’t feel like they were competing for same roles
  9. I know this is late, but I spent a lot of time play testing the new ships for all the races with 2 friends over the past 2 weeks and I still wanted to post the feedback. We got in 12 games (all at 800 points taking copious notes) with various race combinations of fleets containing the new ships vs. fleets containing only existing ships and fleets both containing the new ships. Unfortunately I came down very sick this past weekend and did not have time to polish and submit our feedback and summary battle reports by the 15th. I still haven't written up the battle summaries, but here were our thoughts and experiences. General Thoughts After playing a more than a few games I have found that almost all of the new ships are significantly easier to board than existing ships. The new ships are boarding liabilities, when even facing non-traditional boarding races like Terrans and Aquans. Even the traditional boarding race's new ships are boarding liabilities. For example, based on past precedence Tier 2s normally have at least 2-4 AP. I understand Light Cruisers are suppose to be between Cruisers and Frigates, but I feel they sacrifice too much for too high a points cost and too easily give up Tier 2 Battle Log - especially in the AP numbers. Besides the boarding issues experienced with the new ships, the Agile MAR seems to be over costed across the board on the new ships. Light Cruisers Light Cruisers are a hard sell because they are so fragile and cause you to take a Tier 2 Battle Log hit. I think these would see more play if they remained Tier 2s, but only gave up Tier 3 BL. Light Cruisers should also be consistent across the races like other Ship Classes and have 3 HP. There could be a +1 HP Hard Point or upgrade option for the tougher Races. Something else to watch out for is the Light Cruiser upgrades turning them into worse normal Cruisers, at which point you would just take a base normal Cruiser. Also, Light Cruisers for races that can take normal Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers in squadrons of 4, make their Light Cruiser squadrons of 3 even worse. If the Light Cruisers are worse (but cheaper) versions of normal Cruisers that are balanced around squadrons of 4, then the Light Cruiser Squadrons of 3 are even more gimped than normal and much easier to score the same amount of Battle Log points. It would also be interesting if Light Cruiser squadrons could take a Torpedo, Shield, R&D, Shunt, or normal Cruiser as a squadron upgrade. Escort Carriers I don't know what to think of the Escort Carriers, it feels like they need to be very finely balanced to provide and alternative or supplement to Carriers. I like how the Dindrenzi Escort Carrier is as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. I feel like all races Escort Carriers should be as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. In general I feel that Escort Carriers trade smaller wing capacity, firepower, and point per wing ratio for speed and smaller Battle Log hit. The escort Carriers are also more difficult to remove, as long as the Carrier doesn't have a Tier 2 accompaniment. Even though whole squadrons are harder to remove, Escort Carriers are significantly weakened once they lose one ship or their SRS are damaged. One thing I think all Escort Carriers need is an upgrade or hard point to increase their SRS capacity by 1. Also, Cruiser squadron upgrades should support both Heavy Cruisers and Escort Cruisers, instead of limiting you to one or the other. The new Cruiser squadrons that can only take Escort Carrier upgrades don't synergize well at all. Light Frigates Light Frigates all seem to have a hard time differentiating themselves from other Frigates and Corvettes for all races. The Aquan Light Frigate is at least unique with its DR and CR the same, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Besides being overshadowed by other Frigates and Corvettes, Light Frigates also seem overpriced for what you get. Given their overlap with existing Tier 3 ships, reducing their price to 10-15 pts may establish their niche. They could be like the Omnidyne Corvettes at 15 points with either fore or port/starboard weapons. Another option to make Light Frigates more unique would be to make Elusive Target and/or Agile either standard MARs or upgrade options for Light Frigates. Gunship - VERY BAD There's already a Gunship Should be an Escort Carrier +1 Shield, +2 AP - upgrades are needed and make it expensive Why does it have kinetic, when rest of fleet wants to close and brawl Existing Gunship is better long range brawler At least significantly cheaper than existing gunship Competes against the Skyhammer Cruiser Almost the same, little slower, slightly cheaper, but can only squadrons of 3 Gains better FF kinetic, worse star/port and no torps Was outperformed by both existing gunship and cruiser - didn't think the cheaper price warranted its inclusion Light Cruiser - VERY BAD Worse than existing cruisers that cannot be taken in groups of 4 Give up easy Tier 2 BL Primary is not scatter - why? -2 AP -2 CP -1 PD -1 HP and worse Guns Agile seems over valued Light Frigates - BAD 5 points for Assault Blitz - 12 AP Fastest ship in game? 16 Existing Frigates can already board and are the best Frigate in the game, Relthoza Nidus is closest contender Existing Frigate has 3 arc primary weapons and Pack Hunters vs. scatter gunrack at same strength Existing Frigate has 1 more CR Only 5 points cheaper Needs to be cheaper or have more unique role
  10. OctopusPrime

    Discussion Thread for the new Aquan Prime Stats

    I know this is late, but I spent a lot of time play testing the new ships for all the races with 2 friends over the past 2 weeks and I still wanted to post the feedback. We got in 12 games (all at 800 points taking copious notes) with various race combinations of fleets containing the new ships vs. fleets containing only existing ships and fleets both containing the new ships. Unfortunately I came down very sick this past weekend and did not have time to polish and submit our feedback and summary battle reports by the 15th. I still haven't written up the battle summaries, but here were our thoughts and experiences. General Thoughts After playing a more than a few games I have found that almost all of the new ships are significantly easier to board than existing ships. The new ships are boarding liabilities, when even facing non-traditional boarding races like Terrans and Aquans. Even the traditional boarding race's new ships are boarding liabilities. For example, based on past precedence Tier 2s normally have at least 2-4 AP. I understand Light Cruisers are suppose to be between Cruisers and Frigates, but I feel they sacrifice too much for too high a points cost and too easily give up Tier 2 Battle Log - especially in the AP numbers. Besides the boarding issues experienced with the new ships, the Agile MAR seems to be over costed across the board on the new ships. Light Cruisers Light Cruisers are a hard sell because they are so fragile and cause you to take a Tier 2 Battle Log hit. I think these would see more play if they remained Tier 2s, but only gave up Tier 3 BL. Light Cruisers should also be consistent across the races like other Ship Classes and have 3 HP. There could be a +1 HP Hard Point or upgrade option for the tougher Races. Something else to watch out for is the Light Cruiser upgrades turning them into worse normal Cruisers, at which point you would just take a base normal Cruiser. Also, Light Cruisers for races that can take normal Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers in squadrons of 4, make their Light Cruiser (or Cruiser) squadrons of 3 even worse. If the Light Cruisers are worse (but cheaper) versions of normal Cruisers that are balanced around squadrons of 4, then the Light Cruiser Squadrons of 3 are even more gimped than normal and much easier to score the same amount of Battle Log points. It would also be interesting if Light Cruiser squadrons could take a Torpedo, Shield, R&D, Shunt, or normal Cruiser as a squadron upgrade. Escort Carriers I don't know what to think of the Escort Carriers, it feels like they need to be very finely balanced to provide and alternative or supplement to Carriers. I like how the Dindrenzi Escort Carrier is as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. I feel like all races Escort Carriers should be as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. In general I feel that Escort Carriers trade smaller wing capacity, firepower, and point per wing ratio for speed and smaller Battle Log hit. The escort Carriers are also more difficult to remove, as long as the Carrier doesn't have a Tier 2 accompaniment. One thing I think all Escort Carriers need is an upgrade or hard point to increase their SRS capacity by 1. Also, Cruiser squadron upgrades should support both Heavy Cruisers and Escort Cruisers, instead of limiting you to one or the other. The new Cruiser squadrons that can only take Escort Carrier upgrades don't synergize well at all. Light Frigates Light Frigates all seem to have a hard time differentiating themselves from other Frigates and Corvettes for all races. The Aquan Light Frigate is at least unique with its DR and CR the same, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Besides being overshadowed by other Frigates and Corvettes, Light Frigates also seem overpriced for what you get. Given their overlap with existing Tier 3 ships, reducing their price to 10-15 pts may establish their niche. They could be like the Omnidyne Corvettes at 15 points with either fore or port/starboard weapons. Another option to make Light Frigates more unique would be to make Elusive Target and/or Agile either standard MARs or upgrade options for Light Frigates. Escort Carrier - Carcinus Why is it not as tough as the Heavy Cruiser? No shields? - Needs both Shield Upgrade and Difficult Target to survive Very vulnerable to boarding with AP1 Guns too weak SRS useless once wing is damaged or one escort destroyed - forces you to take bombers Need Deck Crews or additional wing upgrade Don't see ever taking over a Heavy Cruiser that uses same slot Why would I take this in mixed squadrons with new Cruiser class - no synergy In mixed squadrons will only ever take interceptors Cruiser - Ladon Why is this not a Light Cruiser? Why does it have 3 HP if not Light Cruiser Slower than normal Cruiser and doesn't have Dif Target default No Aft guns, no mines, no torps Stronger Fore guns encourage closing into RB1 - but it's a boarding liability and gives up wasy Tier 2 BL Cannot be taken in squadrons of 4 like normal Cruiser - Gives up Tier 2 BL easier With squadrons of 3 you need max upgrades, - makes it cost the same (or more) as a normal Cruiser but worse Needs extra HP, better guns, squadrons of 4, Light Frigate - Like DR and CR that match Like Elusive Target Not faster than existing Corvettes and only 1 faster than existing Frigate Will never take over Corvette Corvette 5 pts cheaper Corvette 1" faster Corvette has pack hunter - more flexible Corvette has much more close range Firepower Light Frigate higher DR and Reinforced Hull-front, but 1 less CP Light Frigate has longer range Firepower, but not impressive at all 10/7/6/0 Will never take over Frigate Light Frigate is 1" faster Light Frigate is elusive vs difficult Light Frigate has bigger squadron size Cost the same Squadron firepower about the same in primary arc, but Frigate has 3 other arcs and Energy Transfer Frigate has 1 more CR Frigate has 1 more AP and CP
  11. OctopusPrime

    Discussion Thread for the new Relthoza Model Stats

    I know this is late, but I spent a lot of time play testing the new ships for all the races with 2 friends over the past 2 weeks and I still wanted to post the feedback. We got in 12 games (all at 800 points taking copious notes) with various race combinations of fleets containing the new ships vs. fleets containing only existing ships and fleets both containing the new ships. Unfortunately I came down very sick this past weekend and did not have time to polish and submit our feedback and summary battle reports by the 15th. I still haven't written up the battle summaries, but here were our thoughts and experiences. General Thoughts After playing a more than a few games I have found that almost all of the new ships are significantly easier to board than existing ships. The new ships are boarding liabilities, when even facing non-traditional boarding races like Terrans and Aquans. Even the traditional boarding race's new ships are boarding liabilities. For example, based on past precedence Tier 2s normally have at least 2-4 AP. I understand Light Cruisers are suppose to be between Cruisers and Frigates, but I feel they sacrifice too much for too high a points cost and too easily give up Tier 2 Battle Log - especially in the AP numbers. Besides the boarding issues experienced with the new ships, the Agile MAR seems to be over costed across the board on the new ships. Light Cruisers Light Cruisers are a hard sell because they are so fragile and cause you to take a Tier 2 Battle Log hit. I think these would see more play if they remained Tier 2s, but only gave up Tier 3 BL. Light Cruisers should also be consistent across the races like other Ship Classes and have 3 HP. There could be a +1 HP Hard Point or upgrade option for the tougher Races. Something else to watch out for is the Light Cruiser upgrades turning them into worse normal Cruisers, at which point you would just take a base normal Cruiser. Also, Light Cruisers for races that can take normal Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers in squadrons of 4, make their Light Cruiser squadrons of 3 even worse. If the Light Cruisers are worse (but cheaper) versions of normal Cruisers that are balanced around squadrons of 4, then the Light Cruiser Squadrons of 3 are even more gimped than normal and much easier to score the same amount of Battle Log points. It would also be interesting if Light Cruiser squadrons could take a Torpedo, Shield, R&D, Shunt, or normal Cruiser as a squadron upgrade. Escort Carriers I don't know what to think of the Escort Carriers, it feels like they need to be very finely balanced to provide and alternative or supplement to Carriers. I like how the Dindrenzi Escort Carrier is as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. I feel like all races Escort Carriers should be as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. In general I feel that Escort Carriers trade smaller wing capacity, firepower, and point per wing ratio for speed and smaller Battle Log hit. The escort Carriers are also more difficult to remove, as long as the Carrier doesn't have a Tier 2 accompaniment. One thing I think all Escort Carriers need is an upgrade or hard point to increase their SRS capacity by 1. Also, Cruiser squadron upgrades should support both Heavy Cruisers and Escort Cruisers, instead of limiting you to one or the other. The new Cruiser squadrons that can only take Escort Carrier upgrades don't synergize well at all. Light Frigates Light Frigates all seem to have a hard time differentiating themselves from other Frigates and Corvettes for all races. The Aquan Light Frigate is at least unique with its DR and CR the same, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Besides being overshadowed by other Frigates and Corvettes, Light Frigates also seem overpriced for what you get. Given their overlap with existing Tier 3 ships, reducing their price to 10-15 pts may establish their niche. They could be like the Omnidyne Corvettes at 15 points with either fore or port/starboard weapons. Another option to make Light Frigates more unique would be to make Elusive Target and/or Agile either standard MARs or upgrade options for Light Frigates. Gunship - Virulence Cruiser stats for Gunship Closely resembles the current Bane Shunt cruiser - which has Shunt Matrix with with FF weapons seems stupid - only used for escaping Only Relthoza with Beams - encourages you to close, which you don't want to do Boarding liability (1 AP), needs to close for optimal range bands Kinetics would have been better than Beams - given we tried to stay at range with this ship Really tough at long range, between DT, cloak, and stealth systems Played well as Long Range Destroyer squadron - Trades brutal medium range AD for better LR AD Weaker than Destroyers and Shunt Cruisers against SRS and torps Will never take Shunt Matrix 4 upgrade - always took Stealth Systems No mines and no boarding actions - fine if playing as destroyer conflicting play style - Difficult Target, Shunt Matrix, Beams, and RB1 torps encourage you to close, while AP1 and only FF and Fore weapons encourage you to stay at range Most success when playing as LR destroyer first half of battle and trying to use Shunt Matrix to jump in near end to eliminate a critical target. Light Frigate - Erigone Very limited play style - LR torpedo Frigate Did not perform well compared to Nidus or Widow if they got in close to medium range Same points as both above - a little faster, but 0 AP, less AD, and more expensive for the squadron Light Cruiser - Iramon Worse versions of normal cruiser no one uses +1 Mv, -1 AP, -1 CP, -1 PD, -4 MN (no mines) No Port/Star weapons, Weaker FF primaries and slightly better close range torps When in a vacuum with the cruiser, they seem worth it for just over half the price of a Cruiser Out of a vacuum they were boarding liabilities, could not board others, regretted closing due to lack weapons, and having no mines sucked We were left wishing we spent the points on other Tier 2 ships - Shunt Cruisers, Gunships, or Destroyers The extra HP, DR and CR same as the Cruiser, and cloak did prevent them from giving easy Tier 2 BL, unlike the other race's Light Cruisers
  12. I know this is late, but I spent a lot of time play testing the new ships for all the races with 2 friends over the past 2 weeks and I still wanted to post the feedback. We got in 12 games (all at 800 points taking copious notes) with various race combinations of fleets containing the new ships vs. fleets containing only existing ships and fleets both containing the new ships. Unfortunately I came down very sick this past weekend and did not have time to polish and submit our feedback and summary battle reports by the 15th. I still haven't written up the battle summaries, but here were our thoughts and experiences. General Thoughts After playing a more than a few games I have found that almost all of the new ships are significantly easier to board than existing ships. The new ships are boarding liabilities, when even facing non-traditional boarding races like Terrans and Aquans. Even the traditional boarding race's new ships are boarding liabilities. For example, based on past precedence Tier 2s normally have at least 2-4 AP. I understand Light Cruisers are suppose to be between Cruisers and Frigates, but I feel they sacrifice too much for too high a points cost and too easily give up Tier 2 Battle Log - especially in the AP numbers. Besides the boarding issues experienced with the new ships, the Agile MAR seems to be over costed across the board on the new ships. Light Cruisers Light Cruisers are a hard sell because they are so fragile and cause you to take a Tier 2 Battle Log hit. I think these would see more play if they remained Tier 2s, but only gave up Tier 3 BL. Light Cruisers should also be consistent across the races like other Ship Classes and have 3 HP. There could be a +1 HP Hard Point or upgrade option for the tougher Races. Something else to watch out for is the Light Cruiser upgrades turning them into worse normal Cruisers, at which point you would just take a base normal Cruiser. Also, Light Cruisers for races that can take normal Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers in squadrons of 4, make their Light Cruiser squadrons of 3 even worse. If the Light Cruisers are worse (but cheaper) versions of normal Cruisers that are balanced around squadrons of 4, then the Light Cruiser Squadrons of 3 are even more gimped than normal and much easier to score the same amount of Battle Log points. It would also be interesting if Light Cruiser squadrons could take a Torpedo, Shield, R&D, Shunt, or normal Cruiser as a squadron upgrade. Escort Carriers I don't know what to think of the Escort Carriers, it feels like they need to be very finely balanced to provide an alternative or supplement to Carriers. I like how the Dindrenzi Escort Carrier is as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. I feel like all races Escort Carriers should be as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. In general I feel that Escort Carriers trade smaller wing capacity, firepower, and point per wing ratio for speed and smaller Battle Log hit. The escort Carriers are also more difficult to remove, as long as the Carrier doesn't have a Tier 2 accompaniment. One thing I think all Escort Carriers need is an upgrade or hard point to increase their SRS capacity by 1. Also, Cruiser squadron upgrades should support both Heavy Cruisers and Escort Cruisers, instead of limiting you to one or the other. The new Cruiser squadrons that can only take Escort Carrier upgrades don't synergize well at all. Light Frigates Light Frigates all seem to have a hard time differentiating themselves from other Frigates and Corvettes for all races. The Aquan Light Frigate is at least unique with its DR and CR the same, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Besides being overshadowed by other Frigates and Corvettes, Light Frigates also seem overpriced for what you get. Given their overlap with existing Tier 3 ships, reducing their price to 10-15 pts may establish their niche. They could be like the Omnidyne Corvettes at 15 points with either fore or port/starboard weapons. Another option to make Light Frigates more unique would be to make Elusive Target and/or Agile either standard MARs or upgrade options for Light Frigates. Escort Carrier - Decurion Like that it's as tough as Heavy Cruisers Felt like Needs ability to take Deck Crews as upgrade Guns felt very weak and squadron lost almost all of its teeth as soon as SRS was damaged or one ship lost Could use option to take +1 wings Why are these the only upgrade option for the new Velites Cruiser squadrons? Can't compete with Cruiser squads with Heavy Cruiser upgrades Quick launch Fore seems redundant given ability for multiple Ships with wings to launch and join wings almost anywhere Want to like it, but it just didn't perform as a Heavy Cruiser squadrons or Carriers with accompaniment Light Frigate - Pugio Closely resembles existing Frigate Slower, -1 CP, -1 CR, and lose torps over Thraex +1 DR, 10 pts cheaper, 0" TL, and gains 1 DR at RB1 over Thraex Scatter weapon great for hunting Tier 3s, but had to close where small squadron size was liability - made great target of opportunity for opponent Same cost and stat line of existing Corvette which is used for hunting Tier 3s Corvettes were faster, more survivable, and more flexible with Pack Hunter Why are these only in squadrons of 2-3? Every other light Frigate is 3-6 Should size be at least 2-4, like Corvette? - readjust weapon profile for larger squadron sizes Needs to be at least as fast as current Frigate Cruiser - Velites Competes with current Cruiser, one of the best in the game Performed well, but was expected given likeness to the Secutor Why is this not a Light Cruiser with 3 HP If light Cruiser could have upgrade for 4 HP Cannot take Heavy Cruiser upgrade, stuck with Escort Carrier that doesn't synergize Scatter gunrack and FF scatter great for hunting Tier 3 Debatable on whether the trade offs over the Current Cruiser make it better or slightly worse Might need more differentiation, maybe change to Light Cruiser with focus on hunting Tier 3s
  13. I know this is late, but I spent a lot of time play testing the new ships for all the races with 2 friends over the past 2 weeks and I still wanted to post the feedback. We got in 12 games (all at 800 points taking copious notes) with various race combinations of fleets containing the new ships vs. fleets containing only existing ships and fleets both containing the new ships. Unfortunately I came down very sick this past weekend and did not have time to polish and submit our feedback and summary battle reports by the 15th. I still haven't written up the battle summaries, but here were our thoughts and experiences. General Thoughts After playing a more than a few games I have found that almost all of the new ships are significantly easier to board than existing ships. The new ships are boarding liabilities, when even facing non-traditional boarding races like Terrans and Aquans. Even the traditional boarding race's new ships are boarding liabilities. For example, based on past precedence Tier 2s normally have at least 2-4 AP. I understand Light Cruisers are suppose to be between Cruisers and Frigates, but I feel they sacrifice too much for too high a points cost and too easy Tier 2 Battle Log - especially in the AP numbers. Besides the boarding issues experienced with the new ships, the Agile MAR seems to be over costed across the board on the new ships. Light Cruisers Light Cruisers are a hard sell because they are so fragile and cause you to take a Tier 2 Battle Log hit. I think these would see more play if they remained Tier 2s, but only gave up Tier 3 BL. Light Cruisers should also be consistent across the races like other Ship Classes and have 3 HP. There could be a +1 HP Hard Point or upgrade option for the tougher Races. Something else to watch out for is the Light Cruiser upgrades turning them into worse normal Cruisers, at which point you would just take a base normal Cruiser. Also, Light Cruisers for races that can take normal Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers in squadrons of 4, make their Light Cruiser squadrons of 3 even worse. If the Light Cruisers are worse (but cheaper) versions of normal Cruisers that are balanced around squadrons of 4, then the Light Cruiser Squadrons of 3 are even more gimped than normal and much easier to score the same amount of Battle Log points. It would also be interesting if Light Cruiser squadrons could take a Torpedo, Shield, R&D, Shunt, or normal Cruiser as a squadron upgrade. Escort Carriers I don't know what to think of the Escort Carriers, it feels like they need to be very finely balanced to provide and alternative or supplement to Carriers. I like how the Dindrenzi Escort Carrier is as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. I feel like all races Escort Carriers should be as tough as their Heavy Cruiser. In general I feel that Escort Carriers trade smaller wing capacity, firepower, and point per wing ratio for speed and smaller Battle Log hit. The escort Carriers are also more difficult to remove, as long as the Carrier doesn't have a Tier 2 accompaniment. One thing I think all Escort Carriers need is an upgrade or hard point to increase their SRS capacity by 1. Also, Cruiser squadron upgrades should support both Heavy Cruisers and Escort Cruisers, instead of limiting you to one or the other. The new Cruiser squadrons that can only take Escort Carrier upgrades don't synergize well at all. Light Frigates Light Frigates all seem to have a hard time differentiating themselves from other Frigates and Corvettes for all races. The Aquan Light Frigate is at least unique with its DR and CR the same, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Besides being overshadowed by other Frigates and Corvettes, Light Frigates also seem overpriced for what you get. Given their overlap with existing Tier 3 ships, reducing their price to 10-15 pts may establish their niche. They could be like the Omnidyne Corvettes at 15 points with either fore or port/starboard weapons. Another option to make Light Frigates more unique could be to make Elusive Target and/or Agile either standard MARs or upgrade options for Light Frigates. Torpedo Cruiser - Harpoon Replaces Destroyers functionality - but with Secondary (Indirect) Weapon Can sit in corner at full stop with torp spook, sector shield, with shield projector - not necessarily a bad thing Goes well with Battlecruiser and torpedo frigate A good Tier 2 that was needed AP1? same as Destroyer and Shield Cruiser - ok if sitting in back of the board at full stop, liability if meant to close with the enemy fleet Always will take shield proj for free over turret Always will take nuclear torps over decimator Light Cruiser - Perseus Weapon Shielding upgrade worthless on 3 HP ship - should be free hardpoint or included Does not compare well to Missionary Frigates and normal Cruisers Missionaries come in squads of 4 with just as much AD and Dif Targ Take BL hit from Tier 2 - easily gives up BL AP1? should it be 2? Light Frigate - Wayfarer Same weapons as Missionary Frigate minus FF and Turret, plus 1 at RB4 on Port/Star BUT, only 5 cheaper than Missionary Frigate Lose 1 DR for Sector Shielding More survivable with sector shielding hanging back, synergies well with a Shield Cruiser near them - BUT you won't keep a shield cruiser squadron back with them Seems like it needs something more to differentiate from Missionary Frigate - 5 pts cheaper? ET?
  14. I went to place an order tonight and sadly discovered the Firestorm deals were over. :[ That was an awful short sale.
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