Gasological got a reaction from Captain_Dan in My tournament list "Dindrylians"
Those look great!
Carrier + gunships is an awful mean combo with the lizards, solid choice there, but I gotta say, I've never had a game with the destroyers where they made me happy. I'd be tempted to drop the assault cruisers and the destroyers, buff the T3 choices and pick up a cruiser squad instead. Or grab yet more gunships...
Gasological got a reaction from Ryjak in Sorylian VS Relthoza Come with a dropped knife to a gunfight?
One of the major Relthoza advantages is never getting hurt from 20in away or more. Take that away from them. Use lots and lots of terrain to cover your movement, and shunt as many frigate and cruiser squads as possible into the flanks of your enemy (watch those mines!). Battleship plus light frigates shunt bombed into enemy fleet as your T1. Throw away your TAC cards, you won't get them, don't let your strategy revolve around it. Cruisers wind up grossly overcosted at 70pts for +1 shield, use those points for more frigates. Bombards make nice openers with torpedo strikes, and a good clean up/counterpunch crew, but if your opponent is clever with SRS and stealth, they won't get much in early, but a nuke could be a game changer. They can also absorb some hefty turn 1-2 firepower sent their way.
Gasological got a reaction from Dataphract in Feedback on FSA rules from new players, ideas for change, from a tournament
It's just when the game gets slow. Nearly every faction gets slow in a furball (optimize three arcs and a mine drop as Aquans, it's slow as molasses), but Dinz and Xelocians are slow a turn earlier, so they stand out and people think they need "fixed". Its been said over, and over, and over again; this game is won and lost (and therefore IS) the movement system. A friendly and fair system to move squadrons (outside representative model, farthest mover) is probably the best solution. Trying to fix the movement system by eliminating fixed fore is like designing a car where you have to disassemble the engine to replace the oil - extremely complicated and fraught with unnecessary risk.
Gasological reacted to Dataphract in Feedback on FSA rules from new players, ideas for change, from a tournament
If you replace fore fixed with just fore in a race like Dindrenzi, you have to drop the AD significantly to keep them from becoming OP, as well as increase side arc AD to prevent them from being helpless. At that point you've taken away everything that made them unique.
Removing fore fixed is a step towards a homogeneity that I think we should strive to avoid.
Gasological got a reaction from Ryjak in Kopis Vs Falcata New Lizard.
You'll wind up getting the TF reinforcement set, and they're built to accept 2mm magnets, so start there. You'll probably end up using ~2 2mm magnets per side on engines, and at least two on the fuselage section of the Kopis/Falcata.
Get a cheap pin vise, but spend a couple extra on the drills. On any bladed tool ever, pay for a good edge, it's worth every penny. Get a 2mm and a 3mm bit. Any job a 2mm magnet isn't good enough for, a 3mm will do great (Relth light cruiser wings). 3mm is also the standard flight peg size, so drill out your mounting hole and file the flight peg square for a really good friction fit to keep your models from listing or spinning around.
Gasological got a reaction from Ryjak in Feedback on FSA rules from new players, ideas for change, from a tournament
I think accessibility is an important factor for the adoption of any game in your local market. Stoobert was willing to gather the feedback of a critical group: people that liked the game, but got turned off by this that or the other and never found themselves loving it. If you want to grow the game, that's the people you need to reach. It may be confirmation bias, but I see a lot of video game properties lately involving space ships. The zeitgeist may be primed, so let's put this game in a position to get some new players.
The way I see it, there are two fiddly core mechanics at the heart of the game - movement and linked fire.
Movement has been argued plenty in a lot of places, and I fall on the side of those who say the game is won and lost in the movement phase. I think a few more cents spent on a good acrylic template that comes in your patrol box and a partner willing to let you place the other five frigates in the squad in an agreeable position is the solution here - not a mechanical overhaul.
Linked fire has got an interesting damage mitigating property owing to its process, but unfortunately interesting is overshadowed by complexity. Terrans for example are annoyingly complex to calculate when overlaying a damaged ship, varying weapon systems, arc fire, turret fire, through a debris field, with a mixed ship squadron. I think the arcs supplemented by turrets are an interesting design feature of those ships and a significant part of the detail flavor of the race. None of that matters when you help a new player through the calculation of their die pool for an attack and can literally watch them lose interest in the game. I think even just having damage and impedance effects applied after a simple addition of linked pool would be a big improvement.
As for the lesser stuff:
SRS needs some rework and has been talked to death - there's some good ideas in there, so go playtest a few of them and report back.
Targeted strikes are a waste of time - eliminate the targeted strike table. Let cyber or boarding actions roll on the crit table and add/subtract a modifier for success level, i.e. +/-1 for hit, +/-3 for crit. Test and adjust for fun. No reactor breaches allowed here.
I'm on the fence about reactor breaches period. They feel very cinematic and may be worth including on that merit alone, but a random mechanic that can win or lose the game without player control feels wrong for competitive strategy.
I'm not a fan of crew damage, but I don't know what to do about it. @alextroy I like your idea of crew attribute working differently regarding cyber-warfare, the existing mechanics have never seemed quite right to me.
If moving one representative ship in the squad works for movement, one ship being the representative minelayer is enough as well. Minelaying at end of movement feels a little off and is a pretty big negative for a fast maneuverable race like Aquans.
Gasological got a reaction from Stoobert in Suggestions for a Sorylian Battleship
I'm amused that you think the cruisers are over costed, they're typically my MVP. I think Sorylian AP values are a big part of their cost, especially when coupled with what amounts to fleet wide special forces for a turn as a TAC.
Sorylian against Dindrenzi is really about as bad as it gets in terms of exploiting a racial disadvantage. It's up there with Tarrakian v Relthoza. You're in a pretty awful RB3 when he's hitting you at a powerful RB2. Defensive use of terrain is absolutely vital. Enforce 25% terrain coverage as standard, and don't take no for an answer. It is hugely important to balance. If you can keep most of your fleet together and pop out at 16in or less, you'll be eating him alive, and if you're particularly clever and don't mind a little mines, he won't be able to put those front guns on much of your force.
All that being said, I don't think I've ever won a game against Din where the enemy alpha strike rolled average or better.
Gasological got a reaction from N2OJoe in Sorylian Advantages
Retractable plating is +1 DR / +1 CR for the whole ship while locking out specified weapon systems (in this case, suggested starboard/port). I'm with folks suggesting it'd be a big help, and sort of fits the fluff and way the models are designed.
Gasological got a reaction from Kor'Nak Vaan in WAR LOG 3726
Gasological vs Kieth (not sure on forums)
Sorylian / Terquai vs Xelocian/Veydreth
15 / -2
Was looking very dark for me at the end of turn 1. Then I won initiative, and my Falx captured his battleship.
Gasological vs Evan (not sure on forums)
Aquan vs Tarakkian
0 / 15
Undamaged battleship, meet planet. Also, is it even possible to kill a Tarakkian BB?
Gasological got a reaction from Chief Mutt in Getting started (get things done)
Battlecruisers would also be a fun option, so are the gunships. The Aquan toolbox is chock full of goodies, and 240pt budget means you have your pick of them. I'd prioritize a snapper group for T3 flexibility, most folks aren't fond of the Aquan frigates.
I'm trying to settle on a color scheme after testing on a frigate, but I'll soon be in a similar place with selecting what to paint first in my Aquan fleet - and I'm leaning toward Terquai. Somebody is selling a squad of the mark 1 assault cruisers on eBay right now, they're such gorgeous models.
Gasological got a reaction from Ryjak in Suggestions for a Sorylian Battleship
Din specific tactics are very similar to general Sorylian tactics, but exaggerated a bit in regards to early game defensive movement.
Reserve half your fleet. Everything in the patrol box is a good option here. Anything you start on the table should either be 1) REALLY fast for movement flexibility or 2) gunships (carrier counts). Drives to max is a defensive TAC, don't let anybody tell you different.
Imagine the enemy units are light sources, and terrain is an object that blocks light and casts a shadow. Put your units in positions where they can move from shadow to shadow in a single turn. Enemy units will generally migrate along open paths that maximize their ability to illuminate the board. This is takes some time to get a feel for, figuring out how far 8, 10, and 12in really is, and where your ass will be hanging out. Have a plan of where your units will end their turn two movement before you put them on the board.
Completely de-prioritize offensive firepower until turn three. Your torpedoes are your only effective weapon when moving this way, and your fore arc will inevitably have some target of opportunity available. Don't over think it, and given the option, plink a T1.
Commit everything you have in a single turn, probably turn three. String your ships within a squad out in a line, generally sweep the sides of an enemy swarm first, getting a broadside and fore fixed shot in where possible. Turn into the center of the swarm the turn after, looking for rear arc shots. If you are going to eat mines, prioritize clearing a space for your frigates over getting one more shot in. Use your battleship for this duty. Double broadsides happen because your opponent did something stupid, not because you did something smart. Exploit the opportunity of one when you get it, but don't try to force it; either by activating too soon such that one of your other activations won't have a target later this turn, or by moving into a position that will result in poor opportunities for this activation next turn.
Gasological got a reaction from Ryjak in Which boxed sets would you recommend for a starter?
Glad you guys had fun!
On a side note, that is a big fat empty table terrain wise. You'd be amazed at how much 25% terrain coverage will change the way the game plays. It goes a long way toward adding depth by making movement a risk/reward matter of cover tactics, fire optimization and target denial, rather than a shooting gallery and prayers to RNGesus. It'll tone down the Aquans a bit on the power curve with 30in threat radii and make a lot more fleet build options viable for everyone you play with. Ryjak actually has a really good article on terrain and table building at his blog here: http://ops-center.weebly.com/articles.html
Gasological got a reaction from Ryjak in 600 Patrol Fleet Tournament
I think it was a great format. I wonder if the games wouldn't have played a little closer to completion if a few players were a bit more experienced, but even my game with BigBen only made it to the middle of turn 3. I know that Evan and I ran some 60 minute full games through turn 5 under these restrictions in build testing, but we were really speeding through those. The big BL swings that spread the podium positions out tend to happen in turn 3 and 4 when squads are getting wiped.
Short games with low point levels made BL preservation a HUGE deal. I'd have been farther down in the rankings if I hadn't taken light cruisers with my battle cruiser, which as capital accompaniments prevented T1 BL loss when my battle cruiser died in three out of four games. I saw a lot of battle cruisers for T1s, but I wonder how many of the folks fielding T1 groups of gunships or heavy cruisers suffered complete loss of their T1 without being under the effects of a dice induced wipe.
All in all, big thanks to Bull99 and Ryjak for organizing and running the event, I had a great time.
Gasological got a reaction from Ryjak in Noob Falx queries
Play a couple games with a few configurations. I'm a big fan of the Falx + Flechette shunt bomb. It's a terrifying thing.
Your cruisers, if you can keep asteroids between you and the enemy, have a reasonable torpedo shot. Of all the units you have, they're the best table starters. Frigates nearly always should be reserved, their ranged potential is nil, and 12in move still isn't as long as you think it is.
Falx +1Sh, +1Mv, +2AP
3x Falcata +1Sh
5xReaper +Pack hunter
Shunt in a frigate squad and the Falx. Keep the rest of your units behind terrain as much as possible till your reserves start arriving, you'll be SIGNIFICANTLY outgunned early in the game.
Sorylians take a while to "get" - I'm still not quite there. Don't give up on them, when they work, it's goddamned spectacular.
Gasological got a reaction from CorroPredo in WAR LOG 3726
Players: Gasological v Evan (not sure on forum)
Points Value: 600
Factions and Allies: Sorylian vs. Dindrenzi
Scenario: Border Clash
Battle Log Score: 2/7
Wiped out, but I took the enemy carrier with me.
Players: Gasological v Keith (not sure on forum)
Points Value: 600
Factions and Allies: Sorylian vs. Terran
Scenario: Border Clash
Battle Log Score: -5/10
Just wiped out.
Gasological reacted to Hive in Sorylian vs. Relthoza Box Speculation - Sorylian Thread
I'd want it to use the old Scatter Cannon, hitting everything in its arc of fire.
Gasological got a reaction from dreadbeard in Discussion Thread for the new Terran Alliance Stats
I'm sorry, but if the harpoon is anything other than all stopped behind an asteroid field in the back corner of the table, you're doing it wrong. Spook and nuke are so massively complimentary they may as well be the only upgrades. Do nuke effects go twice on a double crit? A not entirely unlikely series of rolls could lead to a dead or crippled T2 squad in one shot before they've activated on turn 1.
Gasological got a reaction from steve_990 in Battle cruiser spam
Don't bet on having your admiral past turn 2. Battle cruisers aren't very tanky, and focused fire will wipe him out pretty quickly.
I played two games last week where my carrier based admiral didn't last to the bottom of the turn he arrived due to that problem.
Gasological got a reaction from Presidente in Any Rumors of a new starter box yet?
The Battle for Valhalla box is still out there for the ever popular intra-species feud between Terran and Din, and features the drop dead gorgeous Praetorian battleship.
I and my fellow lizard overlords are eagerly awaiting the oft-speculated about Sorylian v. Relthoza box though. I'd be thrilled if the Relthoza models that came with it continued in the vein of the TF models for the spiders. Relthoza have really seen the most aesthetic creep over model iterations I think, I'm eager to see where they're going.
Gasological got a reaction from Balor in Discussion Thread for the new Sorylian Collective Stats
Played two games today with this list:
Carrier w. gunship accompaniment 110pt + 90pt + 60pt upgrades = 260
- 10pt +1Sh, 5pt +2WC, 5pt +1Mv, 30pt 6xbomber, 10pt 2xinterceptor
2 squads Light cruiser @ 2x (3x40pt + 10pt upgrades) = 300
- 5pt +2Mv, 5pt Pack Hunter
1 squad Harvester gunship = 3x 50pt + 15pt upgrades = 195
-10pt +1Sh, 5pt Decimator
2 squads Light frigates 2x (6x 15pt + 5pt upgrades) = 240
- 5pt Assault blitz
First game border clash vs Dins. He ran 2x standard frigates, 1x new unit of frigates, 2x new cruisers, 1x destroyers, 1x battle station. End result was a wipe for Sorylians. Each of us ended up deploying with significant gap at center of table. I left gunships, cruisers and frigates in reserve. Sory carrier faced off against one unit of each type of frigates on left flank, Din battlestation, destroyers, and one unit of cruisers deployed to right flank to my unit of light cruisers and light frigates. Light cruisers were able to use terrain to evade fire and use high movement to charge past the new Velites units to avoid taking too much fire, light frigates move to center of table to assist against Din frigates. Turn 2, light cruisers and light frigates arrive for Sory on right flank toward Din deployment, allowing multi-arc fire against battle station and Din cruisers and boarding attempts against Din destroyers. Boarding attempts generally don't amount to much and Sory units begin taking losses. Light frigates arrived from shunt with drive core rupture (all ships take 1 hazard) at 1 crew, half of them die in repair resolution. Turn 3 Din cruisers arrive on left flank behind carrier and everything falls apart. Din cruisers double crit carrier, carrier finishes off some Din frigates with assistance from Sory frigates at center of table, Sory cruiser units beat up destroyers but go under half, fail to scratch battle station. Turn 4, Sory units go for BL within easy reach (mostly frigates) and start attempting to FSD. None make it. Gunships arrive turn 5 to scratch a Velites on right flank. End result -8/15 (really more like -8/19).
Second game capture the station vs Relthoza, Sory attack. He ran battleship w/ 2 frigate escort, carrier, shunt cruisers, destroyers, and 3 units of frigates. Each of us deployed to center of table. I start with carrier, gunships, and 1 each of the light frigates and cruisers. He puts battleship and carrier one behind the other, shunt cruisers on left end, destroyers ambush on either side of my column midway up table (actually on right), all his frigates in reserve (and they don't show up till turn 4). Light frigates drives to max for first activation and capture the station by huge margin, also pick off frigate escorts of battleship. Remaining units begin driving up the board, generally not amounting to much against cloaked T1s. Relthoza use wings and cloaked firepower to destroy station. Shunt cruisers jump spread out behind Sory gunships and light cruisers, 1 captures a light cruiser, other two crit gunship. Units generally close turn 2, kill captured cruiser before it escapes. Turn 3 Sory units arrive from reserve (drive core rupture on the frigates again...) Sory boarding attempts on Rel carrier generally whiff, but lucky double crits destroy Rel battleship. Turn 4 all remaining reserves arrive. Light cruisers come in from left flank, Rel frigates arrive from both flanks. Rel frigates capture a gunship and destroy a second, tearing remaining light frigates to pieces as the carriers destroy each other. Remaining Sory units begin attempting to FSD before frigates can finish them off. One light frigate survives by diving into asteroid field with Agile making the difference between life and death. Final score 11/11. Would have been much worse result if not for statistical over-performance of some decisive shooting on battleship.
Thoughts on units:
I really want to like the light frigates. Assault blitz is probably too much of a cost adder for it to be worth the expense. 30 points is a full SRS token, or some substantial T1 upgrades. If these guys don't board the turn they arrive, you regret it when the losses begin mounting. At 20pts/ea you can't help but start complaining about the two arcs of firepower you aren't getting. At 15, not so much. 1/3 additional expense for what typically adds up to a 3 die advantage is probably balanced, but tough to swallow. They're clearly boarding focused, I wonder if second assault wouldn't be a better option. I think they're a good at base configuration, wouldn't change anything except upgrade options. Wouldn't take more than one squad of them in a typical game, just use them to snipe the heart out of an enemy T2 squad and nibble around the edges of the battle if able afterward. Got greedy trying to crit a carrier, even if it was the target these are configured to be best against.
New gunships were never given an opportunity to shine, I reserve judgement until given another opportunity to use them. Gunship designation makes sense based on the the flexibility Sorylian MFV gives in that category, but I don't think anyone is going to be fooled, they're destroyers, with a shield to buy instead of a defensive MAR.
Light cruisers I have the most reservations about. The shield coming baked in at 40pts is really useful. Several times it was the difference between no damage/hit and hit/crit. Once they start getting hurt though, they go fast. AP isn't anywhere near enough to be a credible substitution for standard cruisers, especially at a total of 6 for the squad. Guns feel good for the points value, but I'm not sure pack hunters is worthwhile without a squad size increase to 4. Never felt like it was the difference between a good shot and a great shot, and as soon as one of them died (and that doesn't take long) it felt like a waste. Glad I took the movement upgrade, it makes them feel distinct to be going that fast. Agile alone means they've got great value as terrain hoppers, and I used that to my advantage twice. I often play cruiser heavy lists, and I think I got the Lucern wrong as a result. The new light units in general are opportunists, not workhorses. I'll often play two stock cruiser squads in 1000pts, I'm interested in swapping that for one heavy and one light at approximately the same investment.
With the upgrades I bought, if you dropped the ones I was complaining about and nibbled at the carrier, I could very nearly have afforded a Reaper squad fully kitted out. I think I'd have been happier with that.