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The Warcradle Team

Small Mek

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Posts posted by Small Mek

  1. 55 minutes ago, Brimat said:

    Those sorylian ships look sweet, now i am tempted to update my fleet. :)  

    Why update, when you can expand? :D
    Unfortunately so far I prefer the more grounded versions, but if I know myself well enough, my
    opinion will change after I see the models in person :)

    Until that time, I'm waiting for the 6th of May.

    I wonder if the date is intentionally that close to may the 4th........ :

  2. 7 hours ago, Warcradle Richard said:

    It will be 3 years at the end of 2020. I know it seems like forever. And of course we'd like to have had all the games out sooner but, we were clear we didn't want to rush.  The beta will be announced quite soon and we hope you can become enthused about it.

    Thanks for the heads up, I really appreciate it!
    Even the initial looks of the beta is kind of vital, as people who are interested in the game will have access to it, and I have seen judged based on this premature state. Naturallly I'm willing to wait as long as necessary, but these small tidbits of communication are really vital for the community. Again, thank you for this.

    If I can try and pry some additional info out of you: how does the release of the FSA beta relate to the (final) release of DW? Any connection?

  3. This is becoming a bit of a... volatile situation. Both parties want Warcradle to succeed, but the same situation looks real different from the two different perspectives.
    Warcradle is doing it’s best to make a game able to support itself, and I can understand why they are trying to play it as safe as possible: they are trying to avoid every misstep Spartan has made (even if it means avoiding some great steps along the way). They are also relying on the same facilities for creating the new Dystopian Wars models, and we all know how critical a launch can be for a game. If the stocks are low, it can spell doom for a system no matter how good. I think patience is still something that Warcradle can ask for, and it is for the good of both of FSA’s and DW’s future. Richard has stated (multiple times?) on facebook (more on that later), that the announcement will happen if everything is ready and not before, because they want to avoid an unsuccessful launch.
    The fans on the other hand are waiting, and to be honest, this close to the release the amount of fanfare is significantly smaller than it was when the IP was acquired. Without insider insight we are free to interpret this however we like, and it is easy to expect the worst (such is human nature), and become impatient. Most of the people interested in this thread are also trying to support the company with their wallets, and even though most can understand the causes behind a delayed delivery, there were plenty “IOU”s under the Christmas tree this year, and it can make people bitter and disappointed (even though I know we shouldn’t forget that the existence of the classics range is something to be celebrated, I won’t be less disheartened by this).
    Another sad fact is that these forums are not the forefront for communication, and even if facebook is reaching a wider audience, this platform is still the official platform for everything Warcradle, and neglecting it is probably not the best thing Warcradle can do.
    In my personal opinion the same patience and understanding is necessary from Warcradle’s part as well, and as everyone is getting more impatient, measures harsher than necessary can create backlashes everyone wants to avoid. I know, we cannot realistically expect Warcradle Richard to make weekly reports of the development or when a new batch of KoB escorts is coming, but something that is not a PR sculpted newsletter would make most people more content.
    And lastly a strictly personal opinion, that might sound controversial, but I have no intent to start a flamewar, so if it is too much, feel free to ignore this. The new DW is not going to make everyone happy, and nor we nor Warcradle should act like it will. Probably the intent was more sugarcoated than it should have been. I personally don’t blame Warcradle for this (who would want to alienate every old fan of the IP from the getgo?), but it’s happening with DW, and it will happen with FSA. Nobody owes the other party anything. We can ask, we can give our honest feedback, and in the end we can vote with our wallet. I’m not happy about this, but that won’t change anything. When (and if) the FSA beta comes, I’ll make sure to give as much feedback as humanly possible (as that system was and is closer to my heart), but for me the DW ship of old times has sailed (And with this marvellous pun, I’ll see myself out).


  4. 1 hour ago, Kirin said:

    Would love to get my hands on some beta rules to test with the group. The year is almost gone.

    The beta would be a really really really nice present, alas Warcradle is most probably focusing on the release of Dystopian Wars.
    Supposedly there are separate teams working on each title, so it's moving forwards, but I assume the developement structure is not that strict, and if there is something that needs to get done, than all hands will be on that side of the deck.
    The silence however is rather deep. Yes, we have seen concepts and tinylittleminor hints about the fluff, but on the rules front the last thing was that we have heard was the beta will start after the DW beta has concluded. Technicly I haven't heard an announcement that it has officially concluded (only that the last revision is out), but technically the earth will be consumed by the sun after the DW beta is over. Just not for a while yet (hopefully O.o ).
    Sooooo... 2020 Q1? Q2? Any updetes/hints @Warcradle Richard @Warcradle Stuart ? Maybe for christmas? Pretty please? :cry-blow:

  5. 2 hours ago, RuleBritannia said:

    What did you say that was so controversial?  

    Fishing for a strike no.2? Not nice, @RuleBritannia, not nice at all :D :D :D

    On the other hand this is a topic I'm also following with interest, as I also have ships waiting to be moulded. I really want to show that there's still interest in FSA (trying to vote with my wallet), but on the other hand I know, that I'm not really the target audience, so I don't really expect my personal preferences to be taken into consideration (weird huh? Giving someone your money to show that you care, while not expecting that they will care? I'm sure that there's a word for that mental state ;) ).

    Anyway.  All I think I can do is wait. Wait for my ships, wait for the beta, trying to give my feedback for the future generations to enjoy the product, that is probably not designed to appeal to me.

    But maybe a christmas miracle is about to happen! It's not like warcradle is struggling to meet the demands of holiday orders for their more financiallly sensible lines or trying to build stock for next years Dystopian wars release... oh wait. :(

    Sigh. This post turnet out to be a bit of a downer, but there are interesting things just over the horizon! I'm sure a teaser from the new rules would elevate the dreadful winter mood here (hint-hint wink-wink to Big Brother who is always watching)!

  6. This would be rather... unfortunate. I can understand the benefits of having a lower (monetary) point of entry, but when someone asks on the forums to make an informed decision, the community will quickly make it obvious, that this is not the "real" starting point. We all have seen it, before :D The real question is that how will the smaller ships be distributed. If they will be single blisters, Everything will be fine. If they will be squadrons... Well. Spartan tried this method, and as I remember it, it was not fun for the fans...

    On the bright side: after giving in to fan pressure, the second generation Spartan starter boxes (especially the Dystopian wars boxes) became unbeatable in value. It won't help rebooting the new DW setting, but if the same lesson is learned, the 2nd generation Warcradle starterboxes will be awesome! (... in 3 years... if the game survives)

  7. 16 hours ago, RuleBritannia said:

    I think there is a difference from plainness from necessity, and not overly adorning vessels so they look both warlike, realistic, and gives the design shape time to breathe.  Look at things like more recent 40k where overdoing in fiddly detail disrupts the shape and beauty of iconic designs, and how the less adorned Primaris designs have more detail but not more adornment that makes them feel fresh.  One of things that puts me off WWX and some of the British designs isn't the model per se, the basic designs are fine, but its the fact that Warcradle at times don't know when the step back and go, this is fine, this gives both an iconic design, beautiful curves, and a chance for the player to put their mark on the model, a chance to craft their dudes, and also means that even with the vagaries of Chinese plastic manufacture detail won't be lost, but will be stronger.  I think especially with the British, the risk is the over adorning makes the vessels look like something out of 40K rather than High Victorian.   

    My thoughts exactly. Not saying it's an easy task, but the relthoza design previews for example hinted at that maybe FSA is departing from the functional looking design (as well). Ther is a place for over the top cartoony stuff, and they declared the Dystopian World to be be such place. I'm still waiting to see, if FSA will go in that direction, because there were hints (albeit in the early design stages) that it will take a more... grounded(?) approach in terms of rules. If it's so, the visual designs should reinforce that aspect.

    My only... one of my questions is, that where Warcradle is imagining the new FSA fanchise relative to it's competition? Logically there's still an opening where it's predecessor placed itself - without naming the competition, I think it would be less grounded than the one centered on warfare above a planet's surface, but more grounded than the lightsabre wielding and the grimdark variety space operas.

    I don't think it can (or should) compete with the latter two on common terms (at least in it's fledgeling state). It obviously can change, as there were hints for novels set in the new FSA universe by acclaimed authors (again at the early stages), but even than catching up wouldn't be realistic.

    This is why I'm hoping they won't depart too much from the late Spartan era, as even that that was creeping into the "over the top" territory of the big boys (even if one of them isn't currently active).

    Of course I don't mean that "everything MUST stay the same". I will welcome new designs as any good resin junkie out there. I just hope that FSA won't be centered around space whale torpedoes and the likes. We had enough problems with those pesky aquans in tha past ;)

    (And if that's not the case, I have an advantage over newbies, as my collection features time tried designs with which I know I'm comfortable with, I just have to make sure I remove the designs I might not like from the oposing side of the table asap :D )

  8. Soooooooooo... DW Beta is coming to a close at end of June. Anyone care to speculate about the timeline? Anyone hoping for Q3? Or will the finalisation of the actual DW profiles take much more time and developer resources?

    Do you guys think that the FSA beta can be similar to the DW in that can be concluded without seeing actual profiles for the fleets, or the distinction between them will require stats closer to the intended final versions (Shunting, shields, cloaks, Cyberwarfare etc.)? Too early to speculate? Shall I wait a few more months? Ok ok. Patience. I know. I'll see myself out.

  9. I'd rather keep the discount for the naked ships, but at this point it all comes down to personal taste to be honest :) Ask your group, if they are ok with your proposed changes, and go for it! The official fleet manuals and FSA 2.0 in general is not going to change. Warcradle preserved it, but it's like an insect in amber, it's not going to go anywhere. It's glorious form is available to be witnessed in it's dying agony until Warcradle uses it to clone their dinosaurs from it's belly. :D

  10. On 2/23/2019 at 3:21 AM, Polaris said:

    So why charge the virulence 10pts ?

    Does 65 pts apiece feel too cheap?


    Two (1 internal and 1 external balance related) reasons:

    1.) Not to step on the toes of the banes. If both would be 65 pts fully kitted out, the 6/6/6/0 beams with pack hunters of the gunships would be a much safer bet for the harasser role, as banes have to be much closer to reach their full potential (without the aid of the improved shunt matrix).

    2.) The interaction between pack hunters and cloaked is a bit on the stronger side (not too much, but helps a lot on injured and cloaked ships) Plus I wouldn't compare with either of the above factions - funnily enough for the opposite reason, aquans leaning heavily over to the stronger side of the balance line, and sorylians needing all the help they can get.

    Also huuuuuge disclaimer: I'm really not a game designer, so my opinion is just that: an opinion :)

  11. There has been a lengthy discussion about the virulence  when the rules were tested/were fresh, and it is indeed in a weird spot. It shouldn't invalidate nor the Banes, nor the standard cruisers and while you can only take them in limited quantities, it is in the most contesed tier (also raising the price significantly could make them compete with the heavy cruisers, and there's no question which of the two is more worth it :) ).

    My (possibly deeply flawed) thinking about fixing these gunships looked something like this:

    They were intended as a disruption unit, able to remove a cruiser a turn if the stars align, and they (sometimes) worked for me as such (although as I own only one squadron of them, they vere mostly on light cruiser duty, as it worked waaaaay better then the gunships... for me at least). Currently they are neither a cheap disruption peace (not enough staying power when they meet with dedicated attention), nor a good one (not enough AD). I think stealth is absolutely necessary for them to function, and they get it as a hard point for 0 pts with an alternative I have never once considered. What I'd do is the following:

    -reduce the power of the beam weapon to 5/5/5/0

    (-maybe loose the fixed restriction)

    -give them baseline stealth

    -drop the price to 50 pts/ship

    What we get is a cheap(er) harasser not worth the dedicated firepower, but you'll probably still feel those beams and torps on your tier 2, and they share a hull with the cheap light cruisers anyway.

    -give them hardpoint (2)

    -erease the stealth hardpoint (no longer needed)

    -give an upgrade for the beams to 6/6/6/0 or energy transfer (beams 1) hardpoint for 10 pts (we're here currently)

    -pack hunters hardpoint for 10 pts

    -leave the additional dice for the improved shunt matrix

    -take away the corrosive torpedoes option to leave something fun for the banes, to keep their identity.

    Fully kitted out they are 70 or 75 pts each (counting in the precision strike I have also never considered), which is a hefty sum for one weapon arc, but they are suddenly reliable, and add the long range punch to your force that was missing (discounting allies of course).


  12. Thank you for commenting on these, it really means a lot (to me :) )

    7 minutes ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

    While it has been just over a year since we acquired Firestorm, in terms of games development that really isn't very long at all, especially when we take into account things like manufacturing which has lead times of its own.

    True, it isn't a lot, basicly nothing if you are starting from scratch (although it might imply things regarding the proportion of the changes from the old system on which the speculation already started in my head ;) ).

    The manufacturing side is bound to be a monumental task, rebuilding the entire line will also require significant resources (even from just the CAD point of view), and I'm really really rooting for you so you will see your investment come to fruition, it's in everyones best interest!

    16 minutes ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

    As for the purpose of the Beta, the Beta is never about getting the rules out there for the community to go have fun playing games. Its about giving the community the opportunity to help shape the final form of the game. If you want to do that, great, if not, no problem. 

    I get that, and it is why there are so many of us eager to get into the beta. I might even risk to state, that there were some betas in which I participated, and had as much or more fun during it as when I was playing the final product (even with the tedious bookkeeping part).

    17 minutes ago, Spenetrator said:

    I think that depends on the price of the IP... They may well have bought it simply to make their own game without the risk of someone else revitalising FA in competition (Which would be a perfectly legitimate thing to do, even though I would be saddened) A couple of decades following battletech has taught me  all about IP wrangling.

    I'll be interested in the Beta - Like you @Small Mek I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised. But willing to go back to FA2.0 if I don't like the new changes.

    I get that part. What I was struggling with a bit is that... How much the FSA IP is really worht? I really adore the fluff, as much as most of the people here, but outside this handful of fans even most wargamers probably know about it in the neighborhood of "It's about spaceships I guess". There's no 40k, Star Wars, or Battlestar Galactica behind it... Is there so much power in the word "REBOOT" our age of nostalgia?

    On the other hand, if the Spartan IPs were divided, multiple companies could have started using some variant of the spartan rules/mechanics, and when they come out with their Dystopic Battles or Lightningstorm Armadas alongside the single IP they purchased claiming to their Spartan heritage as well, it could hurt Warcradle directly stepping on their toe... But I think I have gone too far again in my speculations that nobody really cares about, so I better stop rambling :)

  13. Indeed not much solid info on FSA (other than Warcradle would like it to scale fairly well, and they won’t run parallel betas, so most likely no beta until DW is finished or close to finish), but some deduction can be made. Even if it’s wrong, what’s harm in it right?
    The fact that the blanket answer to my (admittedly rather specific) questions about both background and basic game concepts was “We don’t know” rather than “We can’t tell you yet” is interesting (the word choice was 100% deliberate, and there’s no chance that they didn’t want to answer it in depth, so let’s build whole theories on it :D The whole studio fell into my clever trap!).
    Another thing is the recent job opening for a new Lead Games Developer.
    This makes it look like now, more than a year after the acquisition of the IP they have taken a few steps back and might even be reevaluating some of the things they thought they want to do initially.

    A few things I’ve been wondering, probably it doesn’t make any sense, so feel free to ignore it.

     I’ve been trying to lower my expectations about the new rules/fluff resembling to their old spartan roots... significantly. It’s not a preference thing, my investment in the game is shamefully large, so it is a given that I’m a fan of the old system and fluff. But... warcradle is in a tricky situation.
    In my area even some of the most dedicated following is trying to sell their collection for newcomers (yep, I’ve heard of the rare breed) or people looking to finish their collection. The activity on these forums or on the facebook groups is not... significant, so I presume most fleets to be mothballed at best. When the beta hits presumably in Q3 or Q4, two years have passed since the acquisition of the IP. My question is: who is that beta aimed for? The new blood probably won’t flow in until the marketing machine starts. How clotted is the old blood? How much change the people who stuck around for two years with no content are willing to digest? Not the same, not my game? Let the old world burn? Probably as always somewhere in between. It looks like warcradle hasn’t seem to have their directions fixed, I don’t suppose there is an answer to this, and I find myself lowering and lowering my expectations, so it won’t be hard for me to pleasantly surprised.
    And do you think it was worth it for Warcradle to purchase the IP and sit on it for 2.5-3 years? Sure the old moulds generated some profit in the warcradle classics line, but was it worth it compared to the price of the IP?
    I know I’m eager to jump into the beta in a moment’s notice, and willing to use leverage that piled up for two years to blackmail my mates to join me (unintended benefit for the long wait), but I’m curious how many people are left that are still interested, and how open minded they have to get to avoid the inevitable disappointment for the fan expectations branched to a hundred different directions for two years not matching the singular vision of the developers?
    Am I unnecessarily worrying? (I know I tend to do that).

  14. 49 minutes ago, Brimat said:

    Any new infos on a time table for Firestorm? Any info is appreciated. :)

    There's a Q&A on the 31th of January. I tried to submit some basic questions in high hopes for some info droplets, but we'll see :)

    Of course if you have something for us @Warcradle Stuart it will be indeed much appreciated *hint-hint* ;)

  15. As frustrating it is, I can understand the secrecy. If the reason is that nothing significant will change, then it’s for protecting the IP, so it won’t get hijacked while warcradle’s focus is on DW. If there will be changes that would upset the current playerbase, the manpower needed to put the fires out would have to be taken from other teams, who should be focusing on DW’s or even FSA's release. As the dystopian world is more or less established, the fluff division by this time is already working on FSA to lay down the foundation for the world.
    There are multiple sources that are dated a bit after Warcradle acquired Spartan’s licences, that are worth looking at to try to make guesses where the setting is going.

    As far as I know the most official release about FSA is still this, and it states that it’s a “Huge undertaking”. If I wanted to just reshuffle the factions, I probably wouldn’t use this phrase.

    An other interesting bit is an interview with @Warcradle Stuart by @Alex Mann and Oscar Mann at

    The Hub Systems Episode 35 - A Warcradle Christmas

     that is dated Dec 23 2017. I’ve typed in most of the part that is related to FSA. A lot of things might have changed since that time, so please, please read this with a grain of salt in both hands!



    ...with firestorm there’s a lot more work is needed. Not because Firestorm is terrible, it’s not, i’ve talked about this before elsewhere. The background for firestorm is... it’s ok, it has... there are problems with it, and Dystopian wars had them as well, with Dystopian wars is effectively 3 big alliances [...] with [...] lots and lots and lots of factions so we looked to make that 8 big factions with comprising of less nations and so on. The... Firestorm has two [...] factions. It essentially has two grand alliances, and everybody theoretically within each alliance is kind of on the same side as each other. So [...] that already kind of takes away a lot of the [...] drama and the drive and the opportunity for having games actually count for something rather than being kind of a blue on blue “Ah the Aquans and the Terrans have decided that they have a little misunderstanding between them but [it] will be kisses and cuddles between them at the end of the day” or whatever. It’s a bit... So that needs changing, and the other thing... That’s not to say that everybody in going to hate everybody, just... let’s give agency and reason for each of [...] these factions, for each of these powers to be able to play against each other in a tabletop wargame.
    The other part is that the background is... yeah, it’s ok, [...] there’s nothing [...] particularly unique and special about Firestorm. I mean, ok yeah, it’s got recognizable names, you’ve got your biothech race, and you’ve got your... but then actually when you start to look at the models... The miniatures are not bad, there’s some interesting stuff for sure, but like [...] look at sorylians. Look at sorylians. The sorylians are the lizards. Yeah? There isn’t anything about them – I mean the ships need to look like giant lizards, but there isn’t anything about the ships that [...] the narrative of the factions doesn’t tie into the ships at all. I mean [...] you could say that the Relthoza [...] if you didn’t know you could just switch the factions and switch the background of the factions and you could still use the same ships. [...] There isn’t anything inherently there that does that. When you get to planetfall, it’s different because there obviously you could then start to see more relatable miniatures and creatures and things and funnily enough all the points made about come into play again... But at the [...] space scale, the [...] vast scale that you talk about in firestorm the ships and the narrative are largely divorced from each other. You know? What I mean [...] they aren’t hugely related to each other.
    So the Directorate. Why the ships look the way they do? What is it about so that they you know ... they’re to be commerce people. Cool. So why do the ships look like that? [...] Where’s the commercial thing about it? [...] In the narrative where’s the drive where it’s kind of explains that?
    [Alex Mann and his son Oscar explains the Directorate wiped the Sabulons out and stole their tech]
    You see that would make sense if that was a particular nation... or not nation. A particular world, so [...] let us have the humans’ve got their space travel as in there. But the directorate aren’t really one species as it were, they’re commerce, they Ferengi, they’re the grand buisinessman, that they’re the commercial evil overlord type guys. Why don’t they have just the best technology, and the best things of all the races and come up with.... So, ok, they might have murdered one group of people, why didn’t they bought the technology, and stolen and infiltrated and got all the best tech from everybody and... [...] so you’ve got people at Hawker industries and you’ve got all these other companies and corporations [...] Why is that not something, so that they are all sorts of different commercial and [...] all of that side of things all of that grand schemes and things... Why is that not something that they’re exploring? So [...] yeah, look. I get the reasoning behind that, I just don’t think that’s... particularly... [...]Yeah, I’m just not sore that’s enough, [...] I think you could do more with that. [...............] For example [...] why the directorate [is] part of the Zenian league? Why are they not [...] on everybody’s side? ‘Cause surely they could be. [.........] They could almost be kind of a middle faction. If you take this two power blocks, and you could have the Directorate leading all of the other various business and commercial and guilds and other stuff, and they could be the [...] third block as it were, because they... You know, they will ally with, they will support, they will undermine, they will protect anybody that it makes sense [...] for ther particular goals. So you know [...] they’re less bothered about [...] aspets of jingoism and nationalism or [????], they don’t care about any of that because [...] they will strip-mine planets if [they have to] because there are resources there, but also if it makes sense to protect a beautiful world because they get lots of rich people to go big game hunting on it or doing something else, they will do that. [...] The right and wrong of things doesn’t really come into it, and I think that’s interesting, that kind of thing could be explored. But, look. Rather doing like a band-aid, and yas, ok, let’s just give some more information on these, there’s the opportunity to really look up all of the nations, in fact all of the whole setting of firestorm. Is there something that we can give this [...] a vibrant exciting update, and so one of the reasons why it’s gotta take longer to get this to where it is, is we are in talks and we’re working with some sci-fi authors... you know, we’re not in position to start naming names, but we’re working with a number of potential authors who are going to work with us to really develop a new and exciting setting. Of course there’ll be things, there’ll be you know, touchstones for people, we’re not gonna be [...] just completely unrelatable, but it will be exciting and it will be [...] a new firestorm game [...] going forwards. That’s before we even [...] talked about the rules, just about the setting, that’s just really making it exciting and unique and special and identifyable. I mean how great would it be for there to be a Firestorm novel. The people that buy the Firestorm novel because they love sci-fi, and “Oh, [...] there’s a game about this as well! Ah! Cool!” You now, it’s a background, where the background is so good, or is so interesting, ihat it’s worth reading about on it’s own [...] with no connection to the game.

    (damn, this took waaaaaaaaaay longer than I expected, and please forgive me for any mistakes, english is not my first language, so there are things I might have misheard, but I thought some of you guys might appreciate a written version for easier referencing)

    Please listen to it if you have 10 minutes on your hand (it starts at ~01:42), as in the written version all the emphasis is lost. It’s worth it (plus there’s more after this part, even some real slight hints about the rules, and planetfall).
    What I take away from this, is not to worry one bit, even if things change, it will be for the absolute best. A setting that is worth making a(?) novel(s!) about excites me to no end :)


  16. To be honest, as I expect the changes to the fluff to be pretty dramatic (even though I hope said departure won’t be as far from the original background).

    When Warcradle stated (multiple times) that


    On 9/8/2018 at 12:56 PM, Warcradle Richard said:

    For all sorts of reasons, we are going to make Firestorm, our Firestorm.

    I honestly don’t expect that version to play around only with alliances and timelines... I think among the lines of sorylians not being lizards anymore, relthoza are a hive minded species of rubberfaced humanoid/robotic aliens, and aquans being interdimensional energy beings or the Dramos-drama never happened (only in the alternative dimension from where the RSN came from, only they remember it, but boy they REMEMBER it all day :) ). Even is one such change makes its way to the fluff, a simple timeline-jump is not really plausible anymore, but... Well, if Warcradle reallly manages to flesh it out to an extend that a novel (series?) is possible to be built upon those foundations... I think might even be ok about it... (I’ll likely side with my beloved RSN commander though and start to REMEMBER like there’s no tomorrow ;) )

  17. 11 hours ago, Skyhawk said:

    On a more serious note I don't completely understand your faction pairings @Small Mek. For example, Terquai + Works Raptor? I think that the Terquai should go with the Aquans and Works Raptor with the Directorate. Basically keep the original natural Allies. My personal opinion.

    It's a bit too farfetched... maybe... The idea was to round up everyone in the gym, erase every faction emblem, alliance, or association, and group them based on aesthetic qualities only (You have side panel thingies? Third row please. Cylindric hull? In the middle you go. Etc.).

    Probably the reality will be something like: “Here are the factions from now on, do anything you want with the models you own”. Some interesting/iconic designs/design elements will be recognizable, but if warcradle is taking plastic kits seriously… I expect heavy departure in certain cases. Nothing to do with rules though. All the old rules are gone from the website, which also makes me optimistic.

  18. What a lovely graveyard we have here. Imma gonna just necro this one here. I hope you guys don't mind :)

    Sooooo... Am I optimistic, or are things beginning to be stirred in the background? In the last week (after the beta for DW had been released) @Warcradle Stuart dropped some tidbits (rumour? hype? fuel for the life support? SOLID FACTS?) which made me think, that preparations are being made for the work on FSA truly begin (after the DW beta phase is completed). I know, I know, Captain Obvious to the rescue, no need to thank me :) The few things I'm talking about for those not following the facebook discussions:



    Make it less 'Dystopian Wars in Spaaaace'. More emphasis on three dimensional combat environment.



    Timeframe: XY:"Maybe summer of 2019??" -- "XY maybe sooner."



    Definitely lots of terminology cleanup and background revisions. New flights stands too. Funky dice are mandatory, but death to micro dice!



    SRS likely to be tokens rather than separately activated units. Expect a significant reworking of factions and background, but of course lots of new models too!

    Now for the fun part, the speculation!!!

    From these and the comparison between the DW beta and 2.0/2.5 rules, my genius mind ;) allowed me to deduct, that the departure will be greater than most of us expected. With the hint to 3D movement, I can even imagine the template to be gone and replaced with different movement rules to make things interesting (and different?).

    The special dice... I don't think they will be the same as the DW ones - differentiation, and in the DW beta pdf the exploding symbol is marked by the DW logo. If this will be moulded on the dice, FSA dice should be different, which can open up (previously discussed) possibilities.

    New flight stands!!! What can this mean? Similar to DFC ones with levels (3D combat)? Dropping fire arcs? The DW beta looks like it has simplified fire arcs significantly, and if FSA simplifies them further, it might mean dropping them for good in favour of something completely different (I really hope this is not the case, but I don't think it's off the table). I'm not sure how this is going to be resolved in practice, as there are a few old models with funky bases that have to be adjusted to the new ones (looking at you RSN T1 <_< )

    I hope the stat card system (one side for the intact hull profile, one side for the damaged profile) is carried over from DW, personally I find it an interesting and elegant solution, feel free to disagree. I dare you to. I expect the same with SRS, but the probability of this is a bit lower.

    Not strictly on the rules topic, but the significant background shakeup has been mentioned (multiple times). This might mean that the Zenian League and the Kurak Allience is out the window, and factions are shuffled, binned and consolidated probably based on aesthetics. Will this be a 40k-esque multi faction all vs. all or some kind of 1v1v1? And if nothing is sacred, which factions do you think can be consolidated based on looks?

    Terquai+Works Raptor

    As for the timeframe: sooner than summer of 2009... we'll see. Maybe the beta will drop sometimes around that period?



  19. 7 hours ago, reddwarf said:

    From the stat cards it looks like they've mostly removed the hassle of tracking individual damage levels and having that impact all your attack and defense dice.  In fact, at least on the stat cards I looked at, offense never degrades at all.  It's mostly secondary things like movement that change as you move from Battle Ready to Crippled.  That's a significant increase in deadliness, and completely does away with zombie ships (good).  Not sure I'm 100% on board with no attack reduction at all, but willing to try it out.

    @Warcradle Stuart has clarified it on facebook that the stat cards are faaaaar from final. The current batch are for trying out movement, target selection etc., the flavour will come at a later stage, including the reduced firepower values, so if that is true, you shouldn't have concerns about that. Flipping cards to represent battle damage to me looks like a simple solution, with interesting possibilities... (some ships getting stronger when damaged? Getting rid of damaged armor increases speed of some ships?)

    I agree with the dice part, (and I agree: using regular dice for this purpose isn't too much of a hassle) still, I'm looking forward to what's cooking in the warcradle labs for FSA (how much departure they want the two systems to have... FSA won't be part of the Dystopian age after all, so I'm betting on it'd be more significant... if custom dice are on the table, why wouldn't custom D12s be off?)

    The movement system has a paragraph to enforce that there's no backtracking mid movement, which (combined with the ramming rules) will make squadron movements interesting. I wonder how that part will translate into FSA, as many of the proposed changes to movement were trying to loosen squadron placement.

    I wouldn't bury fixed arc in FSA just yet... We don't even know anything about the bases warcradle intends to use (they are one of the reasons why no FSA has apppeared in the warcradle classic line yet).

    I can hardly wait to droool over the FSA rules :)

    Edit: I'm really fond of the tier system, but I'm really curious how the (final) fleet construction rules will flesh out in DW3...


  20. 1 hour ago, Warcradle Richard said:

    I have signed off the budget for some plastics for both Dystopian Wars and Firestorm Armada. 

    Now you have done it! Speculation for new plastic modular frigates anybody?

    New bases that the rules can lean on in interesting ways? :D

    Colour me excited!

  21. 1 hour ago, Spartan Neil said:


    And to be clear....I really don't like tokens! :



    That's one thing yes. But @Spartan Neil, please imagine yourself in the place of players the players invested in (based on the information we currently have available, in alphabetical order, and please forgive me if I have left something out):

    Aquans: mines removed

    Ba'kash: Retractable plating removed, mines removed

    Corsairs: retractable plating removed, fun customization (remove something to gain something) removed

    Directorate: they have everything, so everything affects them

    Kedorian: battleshunt became a maneuvre that kills crew (or costs points to use every time)

    Relthoza: cloaks currently are a non-choice, battleshunt became a maneuvre that kills crew (or costs points to use every time), mines removed

    Tarkarian: Gravity weapons became a worse version of cyberwarfare

    Veydreth: ambush removed, mines removed

    Some of these are cornerstone racial attributes, things that make these fleets unique and fun. While not all of these are related to tokens, most of them are. Some of these tokens are not even removed from the game. The people who are invested in these races, or even those who read the back of the Relthoza shunt cruiser or any of the Kedorian boxes will be really dissapointed.

    Command abilities are a really good idea, hovewer there's a large amount of bookkeeping will be required (30 of them has to be spent it's regenerating, it's effects have to be tracked with... well, more tokens). And saying that you now can make a choice of allocating command points to full stop or fold space escape is removing choice from the game, not adding to it.

    Yes, playtesting is required to know if the ships are still viable  or not (this is why I don't want to comment on the relthoza dread that has been spoiled). But seeing the loss of choices available to us doesn't require that. Please, please please prove me wrong. I really really love this system. I want the best for it, and I want to have more of your stuff. There are real gems in the proposed rules (intraducing the new linked AD value is the best solution I can imagine, even if the current AD calculation manages to ruin it for me almost completely), the natural allies are better this way (even if I'm afraid the percentage system might not be a best idea to say the least). But is it worth losing (large?) parts of the loyal customerbase for an influx of newbies? (This is an honest question, please don't misunderstand me). Maybe this is a really uninformed post, and I will regret it after the rules are in my hands. But if there's some truth in it I don't want to regret not raising the issues I see with these changes for the sake of changing things.

    And lastly I'm really sorry if I have misled someone or hurt feelings or I'm sounding just... plain ignorant. I don't want to cause an even larger breach in the community. If I have offended anyone, feel free to ignore all this :)


  22. 35 minutes ago, Spartan_FA_Mike said:

    @Small Mek

    It's the calculation of the (Linked AD - Damage) pool that is the issue.   Which can you compute faster:

    7-2+(7-2+7-2)/2 = ?


    7+4+4 = ?

    Now for us (who have played a lot), we might be able to come up with the first number pretty fast, because we've done it a lot.  But it is intimidating to new or infrequent players.

    Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying, that we should go back to the old system completely, just reorder the sequence the damage is taken into consideration. I'll try to explain it better. In your example it would be:

    current beta:

    7+4+4 = ?-3

    Our proposed method:

    7+4+4-3 = ?

    Edit: Also I was reallly only trying to ask about the reason of the current method used in the beta, rather than asking for a change, as it has been implied to be almost pointless.

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