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  1. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from Redcoat in Music!   
    I just realized that it has been a while since I have seen a discussion on what music people think fits the factions in DW.  So my question, is what do you hear when you think of the different forces in DW?  Do you hear something epic, or do you hear Wierd Al's Dare to be Stupid, or even The Cog is Dead's Ballad of Stuart the Sailor?
    Here are some of my choices.
    KoB: Primo Victoria (Sabaton)
    PLC: Winged Hussars (Sabaton)
    Free Australians: Rebellion (Van Canto)
    RoF: Rebatir (Aviators)
    EotBS Wani: Under the Radar (Abney Park)
    CoA: Flight of the Ikarus (Nathaniel Johnstone Band)
  2. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to reddwarf in 3rd Edition Weapons Systems   
    I'd be leery of anything that mixes dice types (such as heavy and exploding) in a single roll.  Means you have to differentiate the dice before rolling.  Easy for those of us who buy multiple cubes of d6's, less so for normal humans.
  3. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Polaris in Disagreement with rules changes   
    but no one could save transformers...  
  4. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Sniddy in Reprint of older ships?   
    Medusa was a lovely sculpt and I'm sure people would love to see it back - even for a limited time only
  5. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from Polaris in 3rd Edition Boarding   
    So wait, my Aquans will be getting a ship with access to boarding abilities?  That does not seem right, thematically. The only time I have ever boarded with my Aquans was verse a Directorate heavy cruiser in a desperation move.  I crit the stupid thing too, my opponent and I thought it was hilarious.  But still I hope the Aquans have the least boarding ability in the game.  Lt. Flipper flopping his way through the corridors of an enemy ship just does not feel righ to me .
  6. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Paladin21 in Played a game with some of the V3 rules.   
    Focused Fire is, in Planetfall, bar none the worst rule idea ever.  It promotes sitting still and sniping at people instead of moving and being flexible.  It unduly rewards the force with longer range bands.  It makes getting into close combat a frustrating game of dodging from terrain to terrain hoping to keep out of LOS.  It also pretty much single-handedly lead to a massive re-write of one of the armies (Relthoza) and completely screwed over customers who had bought the force.  It's just *bad*.  In Armada, we've done a few test setups with guesstimates on which weapons will get which designation for Focused Fire range bands.  We're probably off, but the overall takeaway is that it also promotes campy, unstimulating gameplay in Armada as well.  You camp behind a thick asteroid belt or a planet while you wait for something to get in the proper range band for some 3+ hit love, which also seems to correspond to the highest AD on a ship and makes the problem even worse, and then jump out and completely demolish your target.  It's just a bad concept.  Stuff already takes damage easily and the new crit table kills you off faster, and then you add in *another* bonus to take damage?  I guess having everything die in the first two turns is one way to speed the game up, but it isn't an option that anyone in my group is interested in.
    @Hive  I think the attacker actually just needs to get +3FT each turn, the effect of the FT bonus card.  This gives them a free order every turn that has to be +FT, and the Defender gets a free CP each turn to either use on a 1-point order or save for something bigger.  Seems more fair to me in the long run.  Still not a guarantee of going first, but an advantage equal to getting a free order in exchange for less flexibility on what the order is.
  7. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to S..Mike in 3rd Edition Short Range Spacecraft (SRS)   
    SRS launch and activate on the parent carriers activation, during the Indirect Weapons segment.  In the case of interceptors that are sent to perform escort duties to another ship, that token moves with the ship until it makes a PD defense, at which point it immediately returns to the parent carrier, regardless of where they are on the board.   The interceptor SRS on escort duty cannot be reassigned to another squadron without first returning to the parent carrier.
  8. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Aurikon in The Egyptians!!   
    I'm just not worrying right now, ROE are the only faction completely migrated to 2.5.  All other Orbats are translations to 2.5 and not the final product.  Once we get the final orbats, I'll start paying attention to things that don't seem right.....
    Unless I am mistaken and they have finally been uploaded
  9. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from Marden in V2.5 orbats (initial release) thoughts and ramblings submitted here for proper scientific peer review.   
    The current Orbats are just placeholders, they were put out quickly so that people could play with their fleets.  Mike has stated that SG has a new team of play-testers working on the full updates.  The new Generators and other toys will be in the full Orbat release.
  10. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to S.Mike in Obarts   
    They are coming! We are getting it all rolled out for you guys to get gaming and playing in 2.5... with some new ones coming soon (operation:northstar!)
    When we have all these preliminary ORBATS out, we can start the exciting process of getting all the awesome tooling and balanced polish applied to all the nations, with all the new bells and whistles that you have all been enthusiastically asking and recommending.
  11. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Sebenko in Best boarding nation   
    Covenant. Have you seen the Descartes MkII?
  12. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to S.Mike in The Egyptians!!   
    I'll make mention of it today with the bossman and see what can be worked out with the website and or blog. Lemme sniff around a bit.
  13. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from Bazlord in Pointless Particle Ponderings...   
    Thats why my suggestion is to call the short range large blast we have currently a plasma cannon.  Yeah the new weapon has been less the problem than it still being called a PA.  Truthfully i think we could easily accept a name change, as when you say Particle Accelerator for most it conjures the image of a beam weapon.
  14. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Thamoz in V2.5 orbats (initial release) thoughts and ramblings submitted here for proper scientific peer review.   
    Very true Shadowcatdecoy, which leads me nicely into a review of our new units!
    Lets start with the Praxilla (a greek poet).
    Our first true submarine falls into a familiar mode, its hull is basically a KoB vanguard with a lower AP value, capital designation (and thus 5hp) and a far lower impact rating. Like many other submarines it has no potential for underwater warfare, needing to surface to use its deceptively powerful long lance. Looking at the weapon spread (8/8/6/6) and its squad size (2) it is easy to fall into the trap of comparing it to the good old reliable Fresnel. Both offer decent strength (now piercing) shooting at long range. Whilst I do not think the Praxilla is a sniper ship, for comparison in rb4 the Praxilla throws 9 dice which, due to hunter surface, will often result in 9 hits. Fresnels throw 16 that results in about 13 hits. It is clear that the Fresnel is still king here, so what is the role of the Praxilla?
    Well little penguin, let us look at what we have. As a submarine with reinforced bulkheads the Praxilla is a tough medium and will need dedicated anti-submarines weapons to shift it. That, combined with its speed, means the Praxilla will be able to provide a powerful punch in the right place at the right time. Not only that, but it is the type of punch we have been seriously lacking. In RB2, which is when the dice of the long lance get better and the target painter generator comes into play, the Praxilla tells a captivating story. It tells of 12 dice, augmented by a target painter, hitting on 2+. This is the type of punch that can slap dreadnoughts around with a bit of luck. Even the single firing 8 dice stands a fair chance at piercing through the DR and delivering some focused critical hits and some lethal strike AP loss. This is exactly the sort of concentrated force, the feeling of power through precision rather than brutality, that makes the CoA feel true. Here we have a pair of ships that can go hunt enemy larges/massives...
    But there is a problem. Once you deliver a crippling shot like that there will be reprisals. At DR5 and CR6, a surfaced Praxilla will fold under any medium strength firepower the enemy has. To avoid this grisly fate and having the squadron turn out to be a one shot weapon it has a few things going for it. Evasive maneuvers helps get back to the safety of submerged, but even on a 4+ it is not wise to count on this. Hit and run gives it 4 inches of movement to find cover, which can help but probably not enough. This leaves the corvette-style of safe use, activating them late in the turn when not much will be able to fire at them or making sure there are more pressing threats to deal with.
    So I like the Praxilla, I think it adds a tool to our toolbox that the enemy will find surprising and distressing. In a fleet of specialists we now have a close range precision killer. Sure the Fresnel or Kepler-Aristotle will out do it in RB3 or 4, but for the price of 160 points the Praxilla offers a threat that is tough to counter until after it has made an impact. I look forward to running a pair in concert with a Descartes of either mk. The mk2 will give them a guardian shield (still boo for us having one of these) and capitalise on their lethal ability to strip crew from a juicy enemy target, the mk1 will give them a speed boost and the Praxilla will pair well with the ranged skirmishing role of the mk1. So much piercing! Gotta love that new focused critical hit table
    Next and probably the most simple new toy, let us look at the Theon (greek word for god I think).
    Following in the footsteps of the Ptolemy,  Euclid and Capek, the Theon is a 360 degree UFO style flier with a body like a heavy destroyer. 3HP, squadron size 2-3, 3AA, 2AP, these are not terribly exciting stats. What we do have here though is a blistering 15 inches of movement. On a 360 degree flier. For an idea of what that means, on turn 2 this thing can nearly have crossed the table and be sitting in the deployment zone of the enemy. And when it gets there is has a nasty surprise for the enemy; a 7AD fore gun with sturginium munitions, hunter aerial and pack tactics. That is a 16AD on 4+ smash to the face of any heavy bomber or sky fortress hiding in obscured. Even Stratospheric flyers will feel the pain of that shot (on a 5+ it generates nearly 10 hits) Or just 3 straight up 7AD shots on 4+ against those small fliers who think they are so tough up in the sky. 
    On the downside, these are 40 points each, with dr3 cr5 and not much else to keep them alive. Small target will help a little, and the fact that you can easily position them outside of nasty fire arcs or inside RB1 where enemy naval vessels will struggle to target you, but the downside of operating in close range is that enemy fighter SAW will easily start to snap you up. Each 5 strong fighter SAW will likely cause a damaging critical hit on a Theon, which is enough to wipe it from the sky. Like the Praxilla, living after you make that hit is going to be a tricky trick to pull off. Being too aggressive with the Theons will have them caught up in the dreadfort before you know it.
    So finally we have the Menedaius (a Spartan king or general I think) and Newton (... guess). Our first repair vessels.
    I have very very rarely used repair vessels before. My other main faction is KoB and they do not benefit from repair vessels as much as some other nations, so I have always been more likely to put the points into aggressive ships which deal damage rather than try to fix it. The CoA on the other hand have a few vessels where damage repair would be very handy. Primary turret Aristotle for example (note: taking a primary turret aristotle is silly. Don't do it.) or Cleomedes cruisers. Either way, I do not yet have enough real experience with repair vessels to come to a conclusion on the usefulness of this aspect of the ship yet. So putting that aside for a moment (What? put aside the specialist use of a vessel in a fleet of specialists when trying to evaluate it? What madness is this?)
    The Mededaius clocks in at 175 points, which is about as much as a lighter battleship like the FSA Independence or French Magenta. It is also in the region of battle or assault carriers. In our own fleet it is directly competing with the Descartes as a slightly cheaper large vessel. It has DR5 and CR 9 and 8 HP (backed up by inventive shield 3), so not a terribly tough beastie but not too squishy either. It has a good level of elite AP (8) strong ackack (7) and decent CC (5). Oh, and a pathetic IR too, but that hardly matters on this big boat. So far so good.
    But what about firepower? A low-cost battleship or similar usually throws about 2 strong attacks and a weaker supplementary one. The Mededaius brings two turrets, either the above standard 9/7/6/4 or a decent 6/6/6/6 energy turret. I suspect energy is probably the way to go with this ship, but the primary spread is not bad and the fact the ship can repair itself may help to offset redoubtable. Turrets link for a 14/11/9/6 or a 9/9/9/9 shot. Additionally the Menedaius brings a strong torpedo array into battle, 12/12/12/12 shield-ignoring torpedoes that travel too fast for enemy CC to link against. And finally as a supplementary it carts around a somewhat uninspiring but still useful 10/8/-/- sturginium munitioned broadside. For comparison the mk1 Descartes brings a 12/12/12/12 energy turret shot, a 12/10/8/6 broadside and an 8/8/8/8 torpedo shot.
    Overall so far? The Menedaius seems to bring fairly decent firepower and fairly decent resilience for its points cost. Included in the deal is the rather tasty specialist defences (3) and experienced engineers, making survival just that bit easier for the ship. Fuel reserves is a slight negative of course, but the engineers should have that covered. Strategic value (50) is a tad sad but probably fair. So even without the repair function and its little baby Newtons, the Menedaius is not a bad vessel. It lacks wavelurker and is not terribly powerful but it is far from a liability to include (*cough* Pericles *cough*). Then we consider its true role and function. Repairing. It has 8 repair crew, meaning an average of 6 successes. This means it will not really help out the heavier ships that well but can certainly support medium (if only we had a superb medium section, eh? :P). The problem there is its slow speed. With a movement value of 6 it seems likely that our mediums would far outpace the lumbering lump. Luckily it brings along 4 tiny little repair boats that combine to be almost as effective at repairing as the Menedaius. So while the Newtons go off on their jollys with the medium section, the Menedaius sloops along slowly at the back with the slower larges. Larges that are all too easily crippled by a nasty critical effect. The Menedaius has this covered though, because the Menedaius is educated in solutions! Whilst its repair facility is not likely to repair that much damage on our lager models, it does not need to succeed in its repair to get rid of a critical effect token!
    So overall I think the Menedaius does its job in a very good and CoA-styled way. Would I take one? I will certainly try it out a few times. The only consideration is that, due to us being a fleet of specialists, I would need to remove one of the tools in my fleets to make room for this new one. Yay choices
  15. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to S.Mike in V2.5 orbats (initial release) thoughts and ramblings submitted here for proper scientific peer review.   
    @Abakus Innovative technological superiority. Sleek efficient designs, coupled with precision intent of action. Focused on delivering battlefield "solutions" to the troubling problem of the Great Conflict with an arrogant, dominating and cold logic. Vessel design built around this core concept when able, nothing is ever going to be as "bard-like" as is in some nations.
    Strike with might, support in kind, concentrate focus and objectives. Weaponry and fleet designed for optimal impact, everything should have a purpose. Powerful output and reliability, capabilities of extreme ranges, but indeed with this power comes a more delicate and fragile encasement (this tech isn't conventional and rugged!): Glass Cannon-ish. A confident reliance and shields, not raw durability (faith in thier science!) to mitigate return damage and minimize loss to acceptable levels. Elite and powerful crew, yet small in number when set into vessels not specifically tuned for melee delivery.
    Advancement in released weapons and technology (new generators etc) due to the escalation of the war. The vault had hoped it would be uneccesary to unleash more of thier tools of death, and the various warring factions could be brought to heel without furthering the reapers toll... The idiot Nations of the world have proved that to be a fallacy...
    Playstlye-wise... a CoA player should always have a solution that is elite, focused and powerful. Example concepts:
    "Air-hunter" make a mockery of thier targets unbelievable efficiency, support vessels focus strongly on thier bolstering elements to dizzying levels, etc. Focus the matter and bring your A-game! This gives the CoA player unpresedented tooling ability, much like a scientist, to solve the issues they might face in any opponent. 
    Reliance on tech for survival, not weighty hulls. Power comes at a price, both in "cost" but also in a more average styled hull. 
    Weapon systems: longer range, to work with darting and evasive tactics, (but again... certain ships will be built to counter this idea when a brawler is needed). A variety of efficient and advanced weapons and munitions, that are focused for a variety of combat roles. 
    A glut of generators... new and old and some just better than before!...providing incredible options to help with a variety of objectives.
    A unique and powerful drone SAS compliment. Comepletely customizable with a strong support network, that allows for incredible battlefield advantage when well choreographed.
    Outside of specialty vessels, this is not a boarding faction. The risk is too severe! But still packing a solid elite crew to defend thier precious tech-covered ships.
    Hope that helps!
  16. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to S.Mike in V2.5 orbats (initial release) thoughts and ramblings submitted here for proper scientific peer review.   
    Admittedly, there is a ton of work to be done with the CoA. 
    These erudite warriors have long stood tall as the paramount masters of technology and innovation in the Dystopian World. With the new edition of the game, we have been given an amazing chance  to review and advance the thematics and narrative of the faction. To bolster their command of Sturginium era technology, with all types of new concepts and innovations that came with the new rules.
    Two points:
    ORBAT pains and issues are solidly noted and much lamented. These documents represent, in no way whatsoever, the illustration of the complete evolution of the Fleet and its classic theme and rules representation. Many layers of scientific study and tooling will be needed to achieve the desired effect. A concept that excites me personally in the extreme!
    The Scientists of the CoA, being as elite as they are, will have been hard at work developing superior function into existing tech, and it will be illustrated. Additionally, new tech and concepts will be woven into the form of existing vessels. Effectively giving new life to them, illustrating the incredible uniqueness of the Covenant warmachine. This has been a growing concern for you fine penguins as the game evolves around the aging narrative of the Dystopian Wars. But while some Covenant concepts have been developed or stolen by other nations, evocative and powerful new ones  are being ushered out of the vault, much to the woe of the infantile great nations and their lesser scientists. 
    Short form:
    When we get the new testing team set up, brand new concepts and designs will be injected into the CoA to illustrate a stronger and unique theme (something I am to accomplish for all nations!). New tech is coming as promised. And naturally with all of this, will be a polished version of the Drones rule concept in the current CoA doc. 
    Of all the Greag Nations that need work, the CoA is the most fragile jewel. It needs to be handled delicately, in order to keep its luster spectacular and rightfully unique. And it absolutely will be.
  17. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from Bazlord in V2.5 orbats (initial release) thoughts and ramblings submitted here for proper scientific peer review.   
    Ok here goes:
    PAs: Not sure about these statwise but they are no longer what anyone thinks when you say particle accelerator.  With them no longer being a linear beam weapon the name just no longer feels right.  With their current stats it would be better to call them short range heavy plasma cannons or something similar.  I realize this is nit picking but most of the complaints I have seen on and off the forums have been that the name no longer fits the weapon.  And lets be honest, we can all totally see the CoA putting a giant plasma cannon on the front of their ships, you know, for the lols.
    Generators: Yes, the current generator options are stale, they are so stale they have not improved since 1.1 at least (actually we have lost generators).  I doubt these rules are the full 2.5 rules and more likely something Spartan Games did to get out quickly and as such I hope we will see the generators Mike and Josh hinted at.  That said the 2.0 "temporary fix" for CoA drones lasted two and a half years.
    Drones: I will be honest and say i understand the problem with how many drones the CoA can field.  It is totally SG fault, but I understand.  It is actually very hard to make an effective CoA list that doesn't spam drones because of how many of our L/M ships bring them.  For a while SG thinking got into a rut that said drones were the CoA's signature weapon instead of SAS, so they put them on everything, everything.
    That said I think the combat coordinator rule is the way to go for the specialized MARs, you know Acrobatic Pilots, Big Fuel Tanks, Swarm Tactics.  I would not even mind the drones only having 10" move if the carriers had a CC MAR that added 4" to their movement.  Hunter is not a specialized MAR for SAS, it is role defining and core to the SAS types.  There are two major problems with the rules that were just dropped.  One, if you want to use the hunter MAR as a CC MAR then the CoA drones need to have only one statline.  I mean seriously, two of the drones listed currently are just named differently.  Personally I think it could work, and it would be very flavorful to the CoA drones, but right now it just seems half baked and really rushed.
    The second problem with the new approach to the CoA drones is the range of the CC MARs.  I can see the Kepler and Diophantus classes only having 8" CC.  One is a medium without a lot of room for specialized control equipment and the other is a close range brawler that does not need the long range control equipment.  The rest of the fleet though, needs to have a longer range.  The worst of the bunch is the Pericles, it still is DR 5 and all we got for it was Acrobatic Pilots at 12" and being allowed to have Air Hunter again.  It needs to actually be the fleet carrier, and if you are going to use CC MARs this is best represented by it providing coverage for the fleet. 
    Honestly I would recommend removing the CC MARs from most of the non-carrier ships in the fleet.  Right now the way they are spread around makes it very convoluted to deal with on the tabletop. And if those of us that regularly play the CoA find it convoluted to deal with, imagine what our opponents would think!  If the CC MARs were mainly concentrated on the carriers it makes them feel and act more like the control centers for the drone network. It allows their range to be boosted so it feels like the carriers are the CnC for the drones, it allows the carriers to be specialized for specific roles (fleet carrier, sub hunter, ect..), and our opponents can target specific ships to try and weaken our defenses against their play style.
    Hunh, this section on drones ended up being far wordier than I intended.
    Holy $#%%$ Sky Captain is not dead!
  18. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to McKinstry in Admiral backers   
    I think that we the players benefiting from their generosity need to make sure to be thankful. We are getting a bunch of great looking stuff that otherwise would never have seen the light of day.
  19. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Benchpresser in Admiral backers   
    Yes, all of the Admirals are releasing there designs publicly.  I'm pleasantly surprised by this!
  20. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to draco84oz in The secret of Covenant Drones.   
    I would think that living in Antarctica their preferred beverage would be Fortified Egg Nogg (unless the Brits don't mind boiling lager), although, given some of their achievements, I wouldn't be surprised if each laboratory team is unofficially graded based on the quality of their team's still. 
  21. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from Starnite in The secret of Covenant Drones.   
    Ahh, I like to think of the CoA scientists as a mix of modern scientist and the old school ones that liked to combined things for the childish delight of seeing what weird reactions they can get. I also like to think alcohol and a hold my beer and watch this attitude is their primary fuel source for invention
  22. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Presidente in 40% cap on smalls?(still needed in 2.5?)   
    Personally I would have all caps at 40% now that would promote more varied balanced lists!
  23. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy reacted to Venter in Admirals of the Fleet - Exciting fan designed vessels!   
    I don't think SG should balance things after the KS . The opportunity was given to players to boost the game with a good injection of capital in exchange for a major influence on its ORBATS. The players decided that most of the new vessels will be KoB Larges: so be it, good for KoB players . I personally can't wait to see what they have done for RoF, but if my faction gets nothing, well, I'll still have my ORBAT to face what new toys the others get.
    And speaking of toys the other factions get... geez, these CoA players are jealous! Did we make such a fuss when the GNE appeared on the OE, PLC or BW ORBAT? I don't remember so .
    Seriously, I wouldn't worry: look, the Ottomans have both our GNE and our Cloud generator (and theirs is even better), but the two factions are very distinct in terms of flavour and gameplay. I don't think a single Wave Lurker will do much to the CoA taste.
    Which, by the way, is... fishy? I couldn' tell. 
  24. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from FSAHoops in Admirals of the Fleet - Exciting fan designed vessels!   
    Both of you have excellent points. Josh is correct, tech dilution is going to happen, and realistically, in the DW world, the CoA is the faction everyone is going to steal from. But Sebenko is also right, the only things the CoA has left that are unique to it are the PAs and Teleporters.  This dilution is not new as CoA players have actually been complaining about it for years.  I honestly have no problem with it, as I agree with Josh that other factions are working to steal the CoA's toys, they do have the bestest . 
    My problem is this, where are the new unique toys the CoA has been working on.  With everything that has been stolen from the CoA you can not tell me they would not have been working to invent new and even more ludicrous generators and other toys.  Inventing new equipment to stop people from taking their stuff is totally in keeping with the CoA. As is them totally not expecting people will try and steal that stuff too, the CoA has a high INT score not a high WIS score.  I have been wondering where the new generators are, give the CoA a support Gen that gives all CoA ships in an area Advanced Engines +1 on a one or a two, AE +2 on a three, four, or a five, and AE +3 and a fire token on a six .  Thats my problem, the CoA has suffered tech dilution but have received no new tech while the rest of the factions have, and that is not in keeping with the DW fluff.  
    As for wavelurker... honestly... wavelurker as it is, is really stupid.  Every #$%@ submarine in the game should be able to wavelurk!   Really for a sub "wavelurking" is just riding low in the water!  I realize that it is taking another unique ability away from the CoA but the unique thing the CoA has, is more how much of their fleet can pull off a trick that is normally reserved for submarines and not line warships.
    Sorry if this feels ranty it is not meant to be.
    Heh, Thamoz beat me to it.
  25. Like
    Shadowcatdecoy got a reaction from BuckDharma in Admirals of the Fleet - Exciting fan designed vessels!   
    About 20 minuets after I posted my earlier response I realized I was helping with thread derailment, so sorry about that Josh!  We should try and keep this thread for the new toys we are getting from our fellow backers.
    I still hold the MKI was designed while the CoA nerds were sober and the MKII was designed the night of the MKI's launch celebration when they weren't
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