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Overread

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Everything posted by Overread

  1. The handover from Spartan wasn't smooth, Spartan had already been having trouble before they hit administration and WC bought the company assets through administration rather than as a company buyout. They got a pallet full of stuff and had to spend ages sorting through just to work out what moulds went with what. Because they've got their own sculpting ideas and focus they aren't recasting sculpts (I'm not even sure what masters or what condition masters they've got). So when the moulds wear out they get pulled from sale. It's just not viable for them to be investing into moulds for models they aren't expecting to support in the long run. It's only a pain for fans because its taken WC longer than anticipated to get the games back on track - plus Corona has thrown their Dystopian Wars release into a bit of chaos (though I believe they still expect to ship this year)
  2. I'm sure if we just give WC time (and lots of money for resin) they'll get armies as big and diverse as what old Spartan gave us!
  3. All very true points indeed. I well remember comments that not only were many of the moulds old/not in good condition, but that they also arrived in a very haphazard fashion and took a fair bit of time to sort out what was actually what. That said for us fans on the outside much of it is just ideas being thrown around. I suspect many of these issues will steadily reduce once the new range starts to hit the high seas and the shelves. In fact those looking to build their classic collections up might actually find the secondhand market picks up as whilst some will want a full old style fleet; others might start "trading up" selling old versions of the ships for new sculpts so it could take some pressure off that aspect of the market. In the end we are all gamers who are just super keen to see something we love back on the shelves, especially as the whole steam punk sea warfare market is basically empty (heck lets be honest SG was the biggest brand in its scale in a very long while - traditionally a niche that tends to only survive with historical games and with micro companies where there might be just one guy casting and producing everything). So here's to 2020 the year that Dystopian Wars returns to the high seas!
  4. I think it sounds like a bit of a catch22 in that demand for classics is low because most are listed out of stock and/or take a very long time to get cast when ordered which reduces the number of orders which reduces the amount of resources that WC is able to devote to them. Resin casting is more labour intensive than, say, plastic casting and when there's a huge library its not as profitable if the sales are really low as the prices are designed to work with volume rather than 4 of one ship then 1 of another etc..... Instead of 50 of each being cast in batch style production. I think it didn't help that Spartan had already started the process of killing off its own fanbase somewhat before the end and the end hit hard and many casual fans might not even be fully aware that the classics range is out there- having moved on to other games. Plus WC isn't marketing things all that heavily right now (a few events are attended through the year and there IS marketing in that - but its not the major "we are launching with a date" kind of marketing. Personally I think the Classics might actually become more viable if they were perhaps done a bit like how GW does it. Release DW the new game; release an army with a big focus on them and then do a push of classic castings only for that army on order to cast up for. Whilst I dislike GW's "1 week" policy with that (because its REALLY annoying and short term with little advanced warning); it does focus customers into a specific window and builds on the marketing interest already generated by the new models. In theory the new marketing gets old fans back who do take up the option of grabbing some old classic sculpts.
  5. Some of that Prussian chunk is because of their new train system. Don't forget they basically shoved two railway tracks with engines (which have impressive detail on them from the photos) running right through the middle so that they can move different weapons to the fore. It's actually something that would work great with some Prussian themed docks and terrain features showing trains pushing and ready to load other weapon types toward the ships; or even deploying them on their own warfs and docks for defence.
  6. It's more likely that as the forum doesn't see much attention they don't focus on viewing it every day - whilst facebook they likely check along with their own personal social media accounts. In the past I've reported posts to bring them to the attention of WC staff since the volunteer mods don't see any of the back-end of the company so company focused questions we cannot answer (save to repeat what WC staff have already said).
  7. Don't forget whilst the Uncharted Seas miniatures got updated moulds the actual sculpts of many are very dated. The Dragon Lords really show this. If you compare their regular ships the hulls, whilst having nice panel detailing, are exceptionally boring and bare of detail or even ship-like styles and features. Not even anchor holes and the rear window is very "slapped on". They were very early sculpts and if you compare the designs to a lot of the newer stuff that Spartan did, esp for Dystopian Wars, you can REALLY see that they came a long way. Even the Invoker new ships were a world apart from the earlier designs. Of all the Spartan ranges this one would need a re-vamp in terms of updating sculpts for many of the races. Sadly it was also the most dead in the water even before Spartan closed doors. Chances are even if WC have the moulds a good few might be broken/damaged beyond casting quality (esp since they'd put the range on mail-order only and had run it down heavily so chances are many moulds just never got replaced then and were run till they dropped). I do recall WC showed some early design concepts for Uncharted a year or so back. I think its on the cards as something they would like to do, however "when" is a massive question.
  8. Part of the reason some of the old castings haven't come back is because: 1) they were in poor casting condition when they arrived at WC. Because WC is going with their own vision it doesn't make sense for them to remake broken moulds so they remain lost. 2) They didn't get everything on a neat pallet. Spartan Games wasn't bought out it went through administration. Sadly this resulted in a bit of a messy situation. I believe they also said that the system that archived what mould numbers went with which products and stuff were all lost/inaccessible when they got them. So they had loads of moulds and no way to know what they were for; if they were old or new current or outdated etc... 3) They used metal or multi-material. I know early on WC was only casting all resin models. I'm not sure if they've advanced to resin and metal.
  9. To be fair rebuilding is going to be darn hard until there's a concrete release date from WC for when they are going to launch the game. Until then its all ticking over really unless your local scene has a lot of legacy ships to play with and you can get into the beta through the FB groups. That said every day we get closer and closer to that magical time when WC announces it!
  10. It's not in Waylands interest to sit on money and have outstanding orders. So yes if the mould was broken and WC reported as such to Wayland and the listing was taken down yes they would. Outstanding orders for a retailer aren't free money, they are a bother that costs them in support time to resolve. So its in their interests to make sure orders are delivered and if matters outside of their control mean that it cannot be delivered then processing a refund as quickly as possible is best. Honestly besides the "wayland are slower than others" issue I've never had problems with them. I'd also say that their "slower than others" has improved over time, especially when they updated the site to a live stock display. As for WC right now the public display of a model being removed is when it leaves the Wayland site for ordering.
  11. In my experience once an order has sat for a period of weeks Wayland contacts you. I had some ships sitting waiting for production and they contacted me two or there times over the course of time waiting. Each time confirming if I wanted to continue waiting or if I wanted a refund.
  12. Just a point, but sometimes when casting you don't know a mould is worn until you cast with it and find out. Same for when they break. So some of the models might break right when WC goes to cast them up for your order. The issue, I believe, is more one of timing and expectation of delivery than it is purely about breaking moulds (I'd imagine most buying these models have been buying models for a while and long enough to accept that moulds do break and to know that these are out-of-production models being cast only until those moulds break).
  13. It is dead at present in terms of model sales because the only thing that WC are currently selling are ad-hock castings of the past models that Spartan Produced. This makes the supply very iffy and a bit random and isn't ideal, but it at least gives people a chance even if orders have to sit for weeks/months to get fulfilled. However if you've checked the facebook groups there is big movement happening and it seems that Dystopian Wars will be returning to the high seas, likely in 2020 early in the year. WC have basically rebuilt the game from the ground up - models included - so it should be a pretty big launch and its clear that, behind the scenes, they've been designing a lot of new great looking stuff.
  14. I think casting technology/skills have shifted. Early Spartan stuff was VERY spartan in design. Look at some early stuff like the old Dragonlords ships from Uncharted Seas and they were, honestly very boring ships for the most part. The hulls were very plain with, whilst good plank details, not much really going on. Now as they developed and grew we saw big strides on how they could achieve new things with new methods. Their designs got more gaudy and more ostentatious steadily. I think we saw it starting to happen with the newer fleets, whilst older ones retained their original design ethos. Warcradle is clearly starting from a higher initial point of casting skill and technology so I think they get to put that more showy design into more of the core forces right from the launch. For me I'll be interested to see how WC handles army variety, army size and also supermachines. I loved many of the bigger machine designs from Spartan so seeing them from WC will be very interesting. So far the only WC choice I dislike is the change in scale of the ground game and the resulting removal of land assets from the sea game. Though I can see some logic in that - Spartan did have some issues balancing ships (which traditionally are very heavily armed) with regular tanks on the ground at times. And you could also see that some of the land and sea ships were mirrors of each other. Though I think the greatest loss is that the scale change means we won't see supersized land units appear in the game. We won't get thundering rolling mobile airfields, though we will at least get flying ones. Still we've not seen anything on that beyond the proposed ideas made a year or more back so things could always change and betewen the sea game; the legions (28mm) and then bringing back others like Firestorm - there's a LOT to keep WC busy before they have to commit to design choices on support/side games.
  15. From what I can gather many older ships will get updated designs in the new game. For example the core sets are already featuring battleships, cruisers and frigates as standard. So you should be able to swap-in many of your old ships as counts as under the new ships. Of course some specialist units might not return; others might take a long while to come out and some might change quite dramatically in size and scale from what they once were. So I don't expect it to work perfectly, but I think old fleets will still be viable; just using legacy models. I don't expect WC to release rules specifically for the old designs. It would split the community and also the rules would either be on the whole weaker (thus old ships would feel redundant) or could end up better which would feel like old players have an advantage over new customers who can only buy the newer ships (I don't know how long WC will keep legacy casting going for).
  16. I don't mind fewer models so long as the number is functional within the game and comparable to squad sizes. So if you get 3 frigates then I'd hope that frigate groups cap at a multiple of 3 and increase by single or multiple of three models. That way you can just buy another starting box and continue to expand the fleet without waste. I'm also open to them doing boxed sets a bit like Planetfall, indeed the helix system was very interesting in that it helped out on two fronts: 1) It defeated unit spam by giving players diverse pre-designed unit blocks so you couldn't break things so easily with min-maxing units. 2) It helped keep the stocking and shelfspace down. this is a big concern for games because you are only going to have limited space at most stores. So if you can get more models by having more boxed sets instead of dozens of blisters then that can really help. IT also makes the game simpler to newbies even once the armies have increased in diversity. That said however they come I just want to see more models appearing. It was such a shame spartan shut down the way they did when their armies were getting thick with diversity and creativity. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see what Warcradle has come up with and to see a return of some old favourites and ideas and new twists! Huge hovering mecha-squids; vast sky carriers; machine sea monsters, whales with bombs strapped to them like a torpe...oh wait we got that!
  17. If I recall right weren't the tokens in Spartan sets just printed card (not perforated pop-out card), so whilst it was additional content it was cheaper than we might get in a dedicated token set. I don't mind reduced content since we don't yet know any prices, plus it sounds like they are aiming for quite a fast year if they can do 1 faction a month and support other factions with smaller ship releases. Next year is a shame, but at the same time, personally, the end of this year is shaping up t obe expensive so I can't complain at having more time to clear the decks for fresh ships and purchases
  18. I'm still not sure about their Armoured Clash approach, time will tell on that one with the scale change. But that is a freaking cool looking airship for Dystopian Wars! Darn it I hope they hurry up!
  19. Production is VERY encouraging! Concept fleets and 3D printed models are all good but we need some real models for the tabletop! Fingers crossed for a Christmas/Q1 release or sooner!!
  20. Thing is you can bet Sorylians will show off all their small and major side guns. I think showing the side guns helps create the idea that these are vast warships not little fighters with a single weapon (barirng those ships that might well have a single weapon of course). I think it also lets designers make more alien and creative designs and yet still show how they "function" as a ship. You can see bridges, engines, launch bays, gun platforms etc... It all helps build up a visual identity of the ship in question. I think it also helps to remind players during battle as well. If you can't see any side weapons you might suppose the ship has none and some likely will have no smaller side weapons (or smaller fore weapons etc..). So from a gameplay perspective it speeds things up if you are visually aware that the ship has side weapons from one which doesn't have any. Thus being a critical part in how a player will approach enemy ships. Of course some iwll have visual guns others might have curved domes or other unique shapes that identify their alien weaponry .
  21. That's a big change to the Dindrenzie! They've gone from square to a prism shape and I like it. Very alien and mysterious. Also those sides make me think that seeing a carrier from them is going to look very cool. I also notice that the railgun muzzle design is closer to the smaller support ships that Spartan released nearer the end (I forget their name, frigate sized or so and basically a small flying railgun). Which I think really highlights that super powerful fore weapon far more so than the smaller circles that they had originally. The only thing I dislike is that I can't see any support guns on its sides. I can clearly see the massive rail gun forward, but I can't see the smaller weapons. To me that's essential for a ship game, even if they are a bit out of scale to the rest of the ship, you've got to see the support weapon batteries. Otherwise it kind of loses the effect of a huge warship in space if you can visually only see the one weapon. Of course this is a work in progress look at the ship so there's ample reason that the support weapons might just not be on this render or worked out yet.
  22. Overread

    Fleets ahoy

    Hey @myrm I dropped you a pm - check your inbox
  23. Overread

    Fleets ahoy

    Really nice work and some heavy ebay hoarding and gathering to find all those old ships! Some look to be the first generation sculpts too!
  24. I figure at launch its going to be a skirmish game functionally anyway. With the way Spartan was winding down things near the end and bleeding players and with how its taken WC a long time to bring it back and they are doing a full make-over chances are many gamers will have small fleets at the start. So it might take a year or two before we get to a majority having bigger fleets on the tabletop. Plus we'll need that time for WC to have time to release more ship variety and airships as well. It took spartan years to build it up originally so its going to take a while to get the game back on its feet once again.
  25. I think that all ships should ideally be priced well for what they perform on the tabletop otherwise there's the risk that some really cool stuff gets left behind or just never performs well enough to sell. Things such as unique limits can easily prevent players losing an army's theme. Being able to only take one unique ship per 1000 points, for example and even just one of any specific unique type in a fleet already cuts down on the potential to lose army theming. I agree armies want to keep their visual and weapon based identities because those play into their designs a lot; at the same time I think some cross-over ships is a neat way to represent several aspects: 1) In world alliances, former and current. When two factions are allied in the lore then on the table a unique ship type that blends features of both can appear for the faction. This gives them some real visual element that ties them together in the game; even if in the practical battle sense they might gain no bonus otherwise when fielded at the same time in doubles games. 2) Technology theft. In a techno world many races might well steal each others tech and make limited use of it. 3) Joint tech ideas. Eg a faction that uses electricity might steal torpedo tech from another and produce a ship that uses lightning torpedoes. They might only have one such ship; but it represents a technology fusion that might otherwise not happen. Also I'd not expect to see every faction get blending from every other. Not only would that dilute the faction diversity in itself; but at the same time it would also dilute the range and end up bloating it with too many unique "one sale" products.
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