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Grand-Stone last won the day on January 13

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  1. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    It depends also on how you handle these actions. If landing increases your capacity instantly, you could use those points to launch a new wing the same turn. And if you could active the wing the same turn you launch them, it makes sense to land TFT round 3. I fear that it will be to easy to simply launch, activate a wing and conclude it's missions. Then there are limited ways to make drain enemy capacity.
  2. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    I think that a TFT should need to be within 4'' of a carrier to land. Just because it makes it easier to counter dive-bombers with fighters that way. And the thing I want to reintroduce though, is that KILLED TFT do NOT return to the carrier, and thus cannot be used for missions later.
  3. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    Note, that in 1.1 they landed one turn, and launched the next. There is nothing stopping you from launching them the same turn they land. I think the rules scetched make tons of sense, makes things very easy and flexible. Now you only need two rules, *land* and *launch*. Launch: launch one wing per launch point use, and it cost 1 capacity point per wing launched. Then there are several options on how they are launched, especially how they are activated launch and how far from the carrier they are. This depends on the carrier. Landing simply increase capacity points you have, up to the maxium of starting capacity. There are also several options on how landing can be done... 1) By activating a wing, OR by activating a carrier within n'' of a wing. 2) How many capacity points do a carrier recover when a wing lands. Several options... Could depend on which type of carrier... -Recover capacity points up to the original size of the wing -Revoer capactiy points up to the number of surviving TST in a wing -Recover capacity points up to the number of surviving TST plus half of the number of lost. (1 surving out of 5 would then lead to increase in capacity by 3) Lets take an example. 6 launch points, 9 capacity points, and this carrier has a Mar which allows any wing launched to be activated in the same action as the carrier. 1 turn. You decide to launch two sets of 3. (instead of 1x5). You then have spent 6 capacity points and have 3 left. You decide to wait to launch your last 3 before the right opportunity... Later turn: one TST of one wing you send out manage to land on the carrier, which increases (going with 3 landing option) increases capacity by 2, increasing it from 3 to 5. Then, same turn, you launch a wing of 5, activate it and cursh your enemy with amazing dive bombers.
  4. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    Seems like you have taken inspirations from the discussion in this thread. Which I like a lot. By the way, having a wing of TFT land increase capacity, is an elegant way of handling things. Then they can use that extra points to launch whatever they want. No need to have 'rearm, retask' actions any more.
  5. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    Interesting idea, but probably too radical. Smalls first then?
  6. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    Also possible Would solve the activation spam. Or alternatively, they cannot activate before their own phase at the end of all other movements. The only exception is if a carrier have a MAR to activate them earlier as part of the carrier movement. That would link SAS to the carrier. However, my 5 cents, carriers should be able to launch a limited amount of wings independently of how many wings are destroyed. If you link respawn with destruction, you would benefit from getting your sas killed, which creates lots of really stupid scenarios. Especially in carrier versus carrier fleets.
  7. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    Maybe each carrier could active up to 'N' wings this way, where N could be 1, 2 or even 3.
  8. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    I agree 100% Having them different is one key. The other is to link them more to the carrier. Having them launch will make tiny fliers feel more part of the carrier. With 6 launch points you could launch 1x5 or 2x3. What whould you choose
  9. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    That is a valid point, and a view I somewhat share. But it's striking that some fear that carriers are overpowered, others that they are underpowered. However, it will definitively solve 'activation' spam, and technically I find it better to let the opponent be able to react. Fighters are suppose to be good at hunting torpedo_bombers and divebombers, and with 1 round to react they definitively are! Also remember that carriers still would have the ability to rebuild a wing. Give them 7 carrier points would allow a carrier to both rebuild & launch. If you plan them nicely, you could also launch them last action of round 1, and use them first action of round 2. It is also possible to tweak the numbers you get to balance things out. Create new mars for carriers in connection to their SAS. The big issue for me about delaying activation is that any SAS brought to the game in round 3 will have to wait till round 4 to activate. And round 4 is preaty late in the game.
  10. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    No! You don't need to destroy anything to launch a new wing. If your wing survives, good for you. Launch a new fresh one regardless. The rule that you need one destroyed to launch a new one leads to a lot of crazy. Like, wanting to destroy a wing or SAS... You do solve the activation spam problem round 1! Round one, none of your extra SAS can active if they are launched activated. From round 2, yes you do get an extra activation. And for round 3, you get 1 or 2 extra activation if your wings survive. But for activation spam, the problem is round 1. No more. It does have to be tested of course.
  11. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    I for one thing *HATE* artificial limits like 'max one carrier per 1000pt'. If there are other ways, please use that option instead. The main problem with carriers as I see it is carrier versus carrier fleets were in 2.5 it would is stupid to totaly destroy wings. More firepower might be a downside, as you don't want to destroy wings. With my propose system, no more. Carriers could still launch new wings, but they killing of wings is a mighty good thing as it should be. I think dystopian wars is one of the better balanced games, but it could be improved. I hope it is possible to balance carriers without going down the strict limits. Its better that the game it self restricts the usefulness of too many carriers. I have to agree. But not only fighters, all of them. Having the tiny flyers be launched activated would be a very nice fix in my opinion to. It would totally block the activation spam part of the carriers. Couple that with the ability to launch a limited amount of new wings each turn would change the mechanic on how they work. It gives everyone 1 turn to react to any launching of wings. And makes fighters a good counter too carriers... My proposal can also make different carriers more different. Medium carriers could have a nice pool of carrier points, but very low capacity. The double-decker of USA could have very high number of launch points, so they spam out all their tiny tokens in round 1. Others could have a higher capasity but take longer time to send out. While also the difference between 5, 6 and 7 launch points could be noticed, without the later having more planes. With 6 you could launch 5, and have 1 points to spare. Or, you could launch wings of 3 + 3 in the same turn. With 7 you would have even higher flexibility. launch= 7, capasity=10 would be far better than launch=5 and capasity= 10 even though they bring the same number of planes to the battle. Launch=3 and capasity=12 could also be a fun option. Other CARRIERS could have special MAR to allow it to activate 1 (or more N) un-activated wing as the same activation as the carrier (maybe restricted to any wing within RB1). Thus you launch 1 set round 1. In beginning of round 2 you could activate the carrier & planes you send out round 1 in the same activation if you want to. Such a carrier with many launched and ready wings around it would be dangerous. Make the carrier part of the carrier more different from each other.
  12. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    In my proposal, you have N carrier points (or launch points) which you could spend as you wish, including rearm & launch IF you have the points for it. Thus with 5 carrier points you probably would not be able to launch 5 AND rearm another same turn. You could however, if you wanted it, launch 3 & then spend the two ather points as you wish. If you create them with 6+ carrier points instead, you could...
  13. Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

    Whether they should start activated or not is another question... Alternative 1: You activate your carrier, then next action you activate your dive-bombers. Range: 4'' + 12'' = 16'' Partly reopen activation spam problem. Counterplay with fighters somewhat possible if you happen to have one close by. Alternative 2: You activate your carrier, and as part of that activation your launched dive-bombers may move up too 12''. No activation spam problem 1 round, range 4'' + 12'' = 16''. Then there are limited counter play abilities for anyone within 16'' Alternative 3: You activate your carrier, launch, but dive-bomber activate next round. No activation spam problem 1 round. Counter play is possible. But it limits their usefulness.
  14. So, where are we?

    Glad you like. I think it's simple and solves lots of problems. And realistic as the same time. That's good. Some people don't manage to split numbers from concept. A good concept may be destroyed by poor numbers. That being said, the capacity should hold for 2 or 3 turns. 4 is to much in my view.
  15. So, where are we?

    The 5 launch points would act as your carrier points today, including re-arm, replenish etc. The re-arm and replenish does not cost you ANY capacity points. Only launching new wings would cost capacity points, 1 for each tiny token sent to the air. And the launch new wings should cost 1 per token sent to the air. (with the minimum wing size = 3) Thus, with the numbers provided, you can ONLY launch up to 3 squadrons of 5 into the air, and a maxium of 1 wing per round. When that is done, the action to launch *new* squadrons would be lost, but all other carrier actions are still available. Thus, if you launch new wings every turn, you cannot launch more wings from turn 4. This means that there are a limited number of wings available and eliminating wings is a positive things. And carriers would act more as carriers. Different carriers could have different values. Medium carriers could for example vary from 8 & 4 or maybe 9 & 3. Double-decker could have 20 & 10. If you for example have 15 & 6, you could choose to launch two times 3 in a turn, or 1 times 5. Numbers needs to be tweaked.

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