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  1. 2 points
    Well, new orbats were posted and it involves the generators being re-worded and now costing a flat +10 pt swap. Buffed Magnetic and Repulsion; weakened Fury and Atomic. Shield stayed the same. They changed some of the faction generators, and removed some generics generators as well. (Commonwealth no longer gets Repulsion Generators :sadface:) I am uncertain of what to make of the Shroud Generator. They also reworded it that the attacker can ignore the ship as the Initial Target. The rules haven't been been updated, but I speculate they are going to change how Initial Targets are chosen and maybe they are introducing screening. I will reiterate my point from an earlier post that I wish orbat changes were announced in some way. They don't have to go into detail, just a "Hey, we updated the rules to these factions".
  2. 2 points
    Sorry, but I certainly cannot agree assaults favour attackers. They get an average of about 7-10 dice (of course there are dedicated vesels getting more) and face an average of about 14 dice back. Sure, they get Exploding Hits, but given you need to win by 5 points to do anything of substance in victory? With 5 of the 60 V/V cards counting Explosions on defence and 10 more of them being rerolls, I would say that the odds almost always favour the defender.
  3. 1 point
    Omenbringer

    Version 3?

    Chronologically, the 1st edition of the game would have been the Outlaw Miniatures rule set. It was a fairly different game but if you are interested you might be able to find one with a web search. The 1.09 edition that War Cradle published would have been the 2nd edition of the game. I am hopeful that the 3rd edition will be more of an update than a dramatic reinvention of the system. Also hopeful that this means we will also see some models that were either out of print or never printed.
  4. 1 point
    I'm going to caveat this post by saying I'm annoyed that I saw VERY similar stats across nations on this topic, and found it easy to generalise. This swings back round to my OP about lack of substance differences between nations, and it seems it also extends to something like boarding. Very disappointing. There were two actual standouts: Prussia was solid at boarding, Antarticans weak as all merry hell (please avoid boarding if you can... acknowledging they are mainly a mid-short range nation). But yeah, very little differences otherwise. In assaults it might be good to avoid too much difference, I don't know. It would likely be something I accept if the rest of the game didn't have the same issue. OK, I've sat down to look at Assaults across the different factions and in ~70% of cases assaults are a bad idea. There are a whole bunch of caveats in this topic, because what opponent you assault and when has a pretty drastic impact on how likely you will be to cause damage. Generally, a rule of thumb is unless you are Prussian, specifically a mass 1 unit that is still full with voltaic weapons, don't assault capital ships. It's got to be the one thing capital ships are actually good at doing (sadly because boarding is one of those rarely used tools because it is tactically opportunistic in nature, outside of a Prussian lightning assault unit using speed to close) but ultimately, the math speaks for itself, they are insanely hard to overcome when boarding, even when crippled. Cruisers are more achievable for a dedicated boarding group with full vessels, but when looking at averages for roles, a capital ship will struggle to overwhelm a cruiser meaningfully without repeated boarding attempts and being slower there is basically no way to keep that 4" range easily for more than one turn. Other cruisers are extremely high priority for gunnery fire when closing, so are unlikely to be at full strength when finally manoeuvring every ship into 4" of another cruiser (which feels pretty weak given you can be sure you're giving up good firing arcs just do do a few points of damage.... however if the unit has a decent combined broadside this might be viable as a way to kill a cruiser). Destroyers probably overall have the best chances of both boarding other destroyers or other sized vessels. Even here, they are barely scrapping in a point of two on average (except against another destroyer they will average kill it comfortably if all 6 are in 4 " of it but good luck manoeuvring into that mess of a formation). Again, Prussians with voltaic weapons on average have a much better time of this and I could legit recommend as an action you are intending to take in your planning. Whether you have +1's or +2's from rules can skew your unit into decent territory for boarding (pack hunter or lightning assault are two examples). Overall, Assault is quite weak, but opportunistically potentially OK. The issue is partly the on-paper numbers of dice... Citadels are just so high that the base pool plus support plus your highest defence dice pool is just way too high to meaningfully overcome unless you got the whole squadron in range. Even a destroyer is rocking an average of 11 dice in defence plus support ships... This hits the tactical problem of it's actually really hard to do this in the field. You SHOULD be prioritising maximal range firepower. That's not to say that opportunities don't present themselves to squeeze out a bit more efficiency through a boarding, and I encourage that kind of adaptable tactical thinking, but the units best suited for boarding get pretty clustered around a target and unless you are VERY careful in your planning (and even then, the chaos of a human making unusual decisions will regularly throw you) you'll be blocking shots through your own models a lot of the time. However, this all assumes the most optimal opportunity for attacker and defender. There will be cases where your full cruiser squadron is passing a lone cruiser and not firing in those arcs (as an example). Here, assuming you didn't interfere with your gunnery, it MIGHT be a good idea to board it with all three cruisers (one main, two support). You're dice are still VERY close to the line, and it's a risk. in raw numbers in the cruiser category (ignoring the Prussians for a moment) the Commonwealth and the Empire had some of the highest average numbers in cruiser assault dice, and that average was 12... in defence, across the board, you can expect cruisers to be somewhere in the 13 dice category in the are alone and un-crippled. That's doable but risky, especially when factoring in card options. You know what you have, but not your opponent so if you don't have a re-roll card in hand, it's pretty risky and honestly, it feels dumb to blow a re-roll card on a boarding action like that unless you are desperate (I've done it in desperation, still feels bad, usually means I'm losing badly too so it's unlikely to ****** me the game). Now there are occasionally times when you can make a unit look great at boarding on paper (the cryo cruiser for the Russians comes to mind). Beware angling towards that given how rare boarding is. I would always recommend look at the output of the unit over a game, not in a single instance (unless that instance is insanely decisive in nature). It's very very very easy to craft a scenario where a unit may be good, but think if that scenario is likely, easy to engineer on the table and regular in games. If the answer was no to most or all of those, that means it's probably not a good tactic or unit (depending on what you are assessing). There were some genuine standouts in the Prussian navy, and they can consistently board safely and reliably (that second one being the most important). I think boarding needs some tweaking, but the mechanic itself is actually really good, and gives a sense of fire and steel when you roll up next to a unit and give them cold steel. If it was a more reliable tool I might try and reach for it outside of opportunistic scenarios. I'm lucky, I've played a lot of my games as Prussians, so I knew the feel of assault well from their angle, and they are legitimately good at it... but sometimes manoeuvring into position can be a mess and result in problems with gunnery.
  5. 1 point
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  6. 1 point
    It can't. The reason it works like that for the attacker is every hit above 4 deals a damage according to the table. It says at 4+ Counters "The attacker takes one hull point", but doesn't say anything about subsequent counters.
  7. 1 point
    They aren't free upgrades, they are considered in the points cost of the unit, it's just not an option for additional points. Your ship would be cheaper without it built-in. The repulsor is just awful. Sacrificing minimum 1/3 of your firepower to skim? Sure, you might 1 game in 10 surprise someone, but you just wait for it to be over terrain, play the card to shut down generator and it goes boom. It's something you can keep an eye out for in your hand when your opponent lets you know what they have. If they avoid that then why bring the repulse generator? It's not just the points, you also lose the firepower. Fury is actually OK, I will definitely pay that. Assaults are reeeeeeally risky. If you fluff your role they can blow up your ship, and citadels aren't exactly low numbers of dice... You want only overwhelming force in my opinion, the risk of taking damage if you fluff your role is way too high. Hell, every success after the 4th over your opponent does a point of damage, so if you guess wrong you can have your ship crippled quickly. The irony being lightly crewed ships like destroyers and such usually end up being better borders than ships with much larger crews...
  8. 1 point
    Yeah they are mass1 units, so you can whittle them down easily enough. About half of the current nations have twin-gun mass 1 units available. We play on 4x4, 3x3 is friggin tiny. We always play with terrain. 3 land, 3 varying mass obstacles and 2-3 dangerous waters. But with no guide from the devs, hard to know if that is too much or too little terrain. Terrain massively changes which units are more or less effective. In my mind, as per my OP, it should be really clear so everyone has the same standard. You can always play with less or more, but with a baseline you should be able to see what kind of effect that will have on the playability of units. Right now, I have no idea if units are balanced towards open sees, or thick island fighting...
  9. 1 point
    I also dunno about blundered. you can be in closing range by turn 2 easily enough with just about anything. If you have the better of activations you can force your opponent to move his navy all first then respond with your heavy cruisers. If you have a good initiative card that basically means ~20" of movement before your opponent can react to them. That's plenty of movement to get into closing range. I've kinda seen two major tactics so far: 1) is border edge hugging with extreme range weapons or very powerful long range weapons to maximise time outside of the enemies strike zone, and standard move up the board. Because the RB's are slightly longer, I have found it to have a huge effect on getting people into optimum range bands and time those strikes. Even a battleship moves 8" a turn, nearly a whole RB by itself.
  10. 1 point
    I would like to say that I think some great points have been made. I also am a huge fan of DW but have started running into one rules issue after another. That being said some of this is just opinion but some of it is just confusing, especially for new players. 1) Movement Step PAGE 18 gives to many ways to cheese extra turning radius out of the template. Its easy to pick points on the ship that are not flat and you can fudge extra turn radius, this is not even always a purposeful action. 2) Critical damage, getting a Catastrophic explosion actually seems to be not really as strong as some of the critical. why is this? 3)Defenses PAGE 23, In the explanation of defenses it states "Before the Action Dice have been rolled for an Attack, the Initial Target may declare it will be using its Defenses." it later says "each Model in the Unit within 4" of the Initial Target (and with the relevant Defense), adds +1 die to the Defensive action Dice Pool. This does not prevent those same models from being able to use Defenses themselves during the same Activation." Question: what is the point of having to declare you are using your defenses as there is no limit to you using them at lest that is stated in the rules anywhere that I can find. Secondly why would you even mention that the aiding another model in the unit does not stop you from using your defenses if there is no stated limit? 4) OPERATIONS STEP PAGE16, ":During Operations each Unit is able to perform a variety of actions Typically, units will launch fighters and bombers, submarines may set their dive-plans to go into deep running, or Aerial units may go into ta steep climb to rise up into the clouds." There are no rules for dive-plans, or flying into a steep climb, also there is NOT a variety of actions models can do. 5)ORBATS are a bit confusing the way they are doing all the Traits and Special rules. They need to clean this up. Simple things like removing the concept of special SRS tokens and just having it say that you get (4)Blitzen bombers and then give rules for the BB in the top , getting rid of the extream range special rule and just making a 4th range band all in all clean it up. 6)Dice, the whole Heavy Hit doing (2)hits is a little silly. You have a 1/2 chance to hit at all, a 1/6th chance to do (1)hit, a 1/3 chance to do (2)hits of which 50% of the time you get to roll an extra die. I do not understand the point of having the Heavy Hit do (2) hits. 7) Generators are super cool but I agree are kind of pointless. What good is removing (2) dice from a attack pool when they are going to throw 30+ at you. Seems kind of pointless maybe if it was 2 from the main weapon and 2 from each support but anyways, I'm just agreeing they are a little underwhelming but they are so cool conceptually OVERALL I think the game is fun but if we are going to pull new players in and their hard earned money it needs an overhaul. Massive balancing, reworking of a lot of the rules, cleaning up wording and adding all the content. My hopes are that once they drop the last (2) factions they will put out a 3.5 rule set. Or an ADVANCED play rules set. Fix SRS tokens from being just a lame weapon that doesn't need LOF and make them something more the models are great lets get them on the table flying around. The team has done a lot of great things I just hope they continue to move forward and clean up and fix the issues. It feels like I'm playing a Beta game that had a beta for 4 years.
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